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Old 11-11-2010, 06:23 AM
  #21  
bigcountry
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
I have had a few problems with different things. With the Leupold, I would have chalked it up to having gotten a lemon if it wasn't for the fact that I had two other friends that also bought Leupolds, and both of them also broke in the exact same way.

The BAR I haven't really had trouble with as far as not working properly. I've just had trouble finding a load that shoots well in it, and I've tried to get it to shoot more loads accurately. However, I've found one load and one load only that shoots really well out of it. I just am always tinkering with it trying to get it to shoot other loads well. I wouldn't really say that's trouble.

The other gun related item I've had trouble with was a Remington 870 Super Magnum Express, but from what I've read, issues with that aren't all that uncommon either.

There are lots of items that I've used that I've not had issues with, and they work great. So it's not like every thing I have has issues. 2 or 3 things I've got have had issues. As mentioned that Tasco scope I have, I still have and it still works fine.

Sorry that your such a Leupold fan, but the facts are that you can get much better glass from another company for the same money, and Leupolds do fail. Do a search on SnipersHide.com or 24HourCampfire.com There are quite a few guys who have had issues with Leupolds on both of those sites. So it's not just me and my friends. Now there are guys like you that will defend Leupold to the end, and that's fine as I know everyone has brands they are loyal too. In fact, I do too. However, if you look at them and compare them to the competition there really are better options out there for the money.
And this is what else is interesting. You feel the need to add, "I know friends who had issues", or "I have came to the conclution from reading the web that all BAR's are inaccurate". I even show you results, but you ignore the ones that don't agree with your results and seem to gravitate to only the ones that do.

Actually I own more Nikon's Ziess's and Bushnell elites than I do Leupold. Don't you find that interesting? And have owned several burris, and all the crap below. So does that make me a ziess/nikon/bushnell elite/leupold fan boy? I am not brand loyal. I use what works.

You lack experience, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is born with information. You can't make up for experience with sniperhide searchs or even a google search. Even you have to realize the folly in this method.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 06:24 AM
  #22  
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If you read it on the internet, it must be true! You get many "experts" that have only a very limited amount of experience that recommend or trash almost everything. I doubt that there is a truly bad $300 scope on the market. Read the specs and look through the scopes to find the one that will make you happy. I would also seriously consider the application. A whitetail hunt in Tenn. is very different from a high altitude sheep hunt or a cape buffalo in thick jess.
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:28 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Big Uncle
If you read it on the internet, it must be true! You get many "experts" that have only a very limited amount of experience that recommend or trash almost everything. I doubt that there is a truly bad $300 scope on the market. Read the specs and look through the scopes to find the one that will make you happy. I would also seriously consider the application. A whitetail hunt in Tenn. is very different from a high altitude sheep hunt or a cape buffalo in thick jess.
Very true, if you search hard enough, you can find anyone to agree with you on the internet.

Everyone of them have pro's and con's. Leupold has long eye relief, but some like the fixed eye releif better. Nikon has a very sensitive sight window, but some love it because they are the closest to being parallax forgiving. Bushnell elites have a a sucky warranty compared to Leupold but less cost.

I suggest before someone posts, they at least have used the product. Not just one VX-1.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 07:01 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by bigcountry
And this is what else is interesting. You feel the need to add, "I know friends who had issues", or "I have came to the conclution from reading the web that all BAR's are inaccurate". I even show you results, but you ignore the ones that don't agree with your results and seem to gravitate to only the ones that do.

Actually I own more Nikon's Ziess's and Bushnell elites than I do Leupold. Don't you find that interesting? And have owned several burris, and all the crap below. So does that make me a ziess/nikon/bushnell elite/leupold fan boy? I am not brand loyal. I use what works.

You lack experience, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is born with information. You can't make up for experience with sniperhide searchs or even a google search. Even you have to realize the folly in this method.
I don't think that all BAR's are inaccurate, but 98% of the people I've talked to online or in person claim the same experiences I've had. They have either traded them off because they were inaccurate, or found one load it likes, and that's it and have the rest shoot 5-6" groups. Now there are some like yours that are accurate, and in fact a hunting buddy got one this year that shoots pretty good. However, that still doesn't change the fact that 98% of the people I've talked to, or the ones I've seen have been pretty inaccurate, until finding a load it likes and then it's still only decent performance. I will mention that the majority of people I know with BAR's that have BOSS have a lot better luck, but the older ones don't have the BOSS either, so that doesn't really seem to matter too much.

I'm not sure how having bad luck with Leupold and good luck with other scopes means I lack experience, but whatever. I've had several scopes and the Leupold VX-I's I have are the only ones I've ever had issues with. Some weren't my favorite so I sold or traded them, but they worked fine. I have a Bushnell Elite Tactical too, and to be honest, I'm not in love with it either. However, it works. The glass is decent, but not all that much better than the Leupold. It is better, but not a night and day difference. The adjustments are positive and feel great, however, they don't seem to track exactly true. They are close, but not exact. It's a pretty good scope overall, but it's just not for me. If someone asks me how the glass is, or how the adjustments are I will tell them, but I'm not going to tell people it's horrible just because it's not for me. It's a decent scope and it flat out works. The 2 Leupolds I've owned did in fact break and that's why I tell don't recommend them.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:05 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by bigcountry
Very true, if you search hard enough, you can find anyone to agree with you on the internet.

Everyone of them have pro's and con's. Leupold has long eye relief, but some like the fixed eye releif better. Nikon has a very sensitive sight window, but some love it because they are the closest to being parallax forgiving. Bushnell elites have a a sucky warranty compared to Leupold but less cost.

I suggest before someone posts, they at least have used the product. Not just one VX-1.
I have personally owned 2 VX-I's. Both have had the same crappy glass, and both have broken. That being said, you don't see me on here saying how the VX-II's and VX-III's break all the time, because I've not owned one. I don't plan to own one either because I have looked through them quite a bit and optically you can get just as good of glass for less.

I'm not on here just talking **** about stuff I've never used even though you seem to think I am.

That being said, you all are exactly right about people bashing stuff they have never used online.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:07 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bigcountry
Very true, if you search hard enough, you can find anyone to agree with you on the internet.

Everyone of them have pro's and con's. Leupold has long eye relief, but some like the fixed eye releif better. Nikon has a very sensitive sight window, but some love it because they are the closest to being parallax forgiving. Bushnell elites have a a sucky warranty compared to Leupold but less cost.

I suggest before someone posts, they at least have used the product. Not just one VX-1.
That's my experience with Nikon too, but in all honesty it's really not that bad. Optically the one I've had was quite a bit better than my VX-I, and was slightly cheaper. That being said, it was more sensitive to eye relief. Not so much that it was a problem, but it was more sensitive. I've bought, traded, and sold several scopes, so while I've not used a ton of them, and don't currently own a ton, I've used several of the popular models out there.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:10 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
I don't think that all BAR's are inaccurate, but 98% of the people I've talked to online or in person claim the same experiences I've had. They have either traded them off because they were inaccurate, or found one load it likes, and that's it and have the rest shoot 5-6" groups. Now there are some like yours that are accurate, and in fact a hunting buddy got one this year that shoots pretty good. However, that still doesn't change the fact that 98% of the people I've talked to, or the ones I've seen have been pretty inaccurate, until finding a load it likes and then it's still only decent performance. I will mention that the majority of people I know with BAR's that have BOSS have a lot better luck, but the older ones don't have the BOSS either, so that doesn't really seem to matter too much.
Thank you for proving my point. Experience cannot be feigned. You searched the internet and found what you wanted to hear. Thank you again, you proved my point in spades.

I'm not sure how having bad luck with Leupold and good luck with other scopes means I lack experience, but whatever. I've had several scopes and the Leupold VX-I's I have are the only ones I've ever had issues with. Some weren't my favorite so I sold or traded them, but they worked fine. I have a Bushnell Elite Tactical too, and to be honest, I'm not in love with it either.
Oh my goodness, this is priceless entertainment. So you went from owning one VX1 (this is what you said last year) now you say you own two. But now, you have owned an bushnell elite. How is life in that world?
 
Old 11-11-2010, 07:24 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by bigcountry
Thank you for proving my point. Experience cannot be feigned. You searched the internet and found what you wanted to hear. Thank you again, you proved my point in spades.



Oh my goodness, this is priceless entertainment. So you went from owning one VX1 (this is what you said last year) now you say you own two. But now, you have owned an bushnell elite. How is life in that world?
So you think for me to figure out if the majority of BAR's are accurate or not that I need to buy a ton? Owning one and getting experience from that, then listening to the experience of others that also own them isn't the thing to do? Sorry, but I don't see why I'd buy another gun just to see if it's any more accurate when the first one isn't, and the majority of guys I've talked to claim theirs isn't either.

I didn't search the internet trying to find what I wanted to hear. I searched the internet trying to find a way to fix it. Basically what I found is that the forearm torque is critical, and other than that they can go from 5-6" groups with most ammo to 1.5" groups with ammo it likes and that you just need to find that. I did find ammo that shot 1.5" groups, but I've only found one ammo that shoots that well and everything else has shot 5-6" groups. That being said, 1.5" groups is still pretty crappy. I've also talked to Browning and their customer service reps will tell you that BAR's are not the most accurate guns in the world and that 2" groups are average. That's not good groups. Sorry. I think the guys at Browning know more than you.

Last year I did only own one VX-I. I have bought another one since as I got it cheap from a buddy that also thought it sucked, and also ended up selling that one after comparing it and seeing it was no better. Just because I haven't posted up all the scopes I've owned in my life doesn't mean that the Leupolds are the only two I've owned. Sorry, but I see no reason to keep 20 scopes on hand when I don't have 20 guns. Just because you have a ton of guys, doesn't mean you know anymore about them than someone who owns one or two guns with one or two scopes. Sorry, but I see no reason to own that many guns, nor do I see a reason to own that many scopes. I have however, bought several scopes at good prices, tried them out, and if I haven't loved them, I sell them. I don't really see a better way to get experience with them than that. While there are some guys online that I've read their experiences and they don't match mine at all, there are a few trusted members at sites who's experiences match mine exactly with every scope I've tried that they have reviewed. That makes me tend to trust their opinion on other scopes too.

Go to OpticsTalk.com or Snipershide.com and you can talk to guys that are serious into optics, and most of them think Leupold's are a joke. Having the experience I've had with 2 of them for myself, and then hearing all of their experiences doesn't tend to make me think, "gee, I should buy 15 more of these to try and see if they are as crappy as my the 2 I've had and as crappy as the other guys that have owned them say". Maybe that's what goes through your had when you have a product that doesn't work, but it's not what goes through mine. I also don't want some uninformed buyer buying one unexpectedly only to find out it's crap. That's why I tell him my experience. If he wants to try one anyway, that's 100% fine with me. I will at least know that if he is disappointed, that he was warned first. If he isn't disappointed, that's great and I'm happy for him.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:36 AM
  #29  
bigcountry
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
So you think for me to figure out if the majority of BAR's are accurate or not that I need to buy a ton? Owning one and getting experience from that, then listening to the experience of others that also own them isn't the thing to do? Sorry, but I don't see why I'd buy another gun just to see if it's any more accurate when the first one isn't, and the majority of guys I've talked to claim theirs isn't either.

I didn't search the internet trying to find what I wanted to hear. I searched the internet trying to find a way to fix it. Basically what I found is that the forearm torque is critical, and other than that they can go from 5-6" groups with most ammo to 1.5" groups with ammo it likes and that you just need to find that. I did find ammo that shot 1.5" groups, but I've only found one ammo that shoots that well and everything else has shot 5-6" groups. That being said, 1.5" groups is still pretty crappy. I've also talked to Browning and their customer service reps will tell you that BAR's are not the most accurate guns in the world and that 2" groups are average. That's not good groups. Sorry. I think the guys at Browning know more than you.

Last year I did only own one VX-I. I have bought another one since as I got it cheap from a buddy that also thought it sucked, and also ended up selling that one after comparing it and seeing it was no better. Just because I haven't posted up all the scopes I've owned in my life doesn't mean that the Leupolds are the only two I've owned. Sorry, but I see no reason to keep 20 scopes on hand when I don't have 20 guns. Just because you have a ton of guys, doesn't mean you know anymore about them than someone who owns one or two guns with one or two scopes. Sorry, but I see no reason to own that many guns, nor do I see a reason to own that many scopes. I have however, bought several scopes at good prices, tried them out, and if I haven't loved them, I sell them. I don't really see a better way to get experience with them than that. While there are some guys online that I've read their experiences and they don't match mine at all, there are a few trusted members at sites who's experiences match mine exactly with every scope I've tried that they have reviewed. That makes me tend to trust their opinion on other scopes too.

Go to OpticsTalk.com or Snipershide.com and you can talk to guys that are serious into optics, and most of them think Leupold's are a joke. Having the experience I've had with 2 of them for myself, and then hearing all of their experiences doesn't tend to make me think, "gee, I should buy 15 more of these to try and see if they are as crappy as my the 2 I've had and as crappy as the other guys that have owned them say". Maybe that's what goes through your had when you have a product that doesn't work, but it's not what goes through mine. I also don't want some uninformed buyer buying one unexpectedly only to find out it's crap. That's why I tell him my experience. If he wants to try one anyway, that's 100% fine with me. I will at least know that if he is disappointed, that he was warned first. If he isn't disappointed, that's great and I'm happy for him.
Again, a google genius. I probably wouldn't look into buying another gun or scope. But might look into the person behind the trigger. Free advise. I should charge you but I won't. Good luck in that world. Your going to need it.
 
Old 11-11-2010, 07:37 AM
  #30  
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So experiences backed by research aren't good enough for you? What would you want a person to do to properly evaluate a product? Just curious?
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