Big Uncle

This whole thread is out of control. Leupold makes great scopes, yet some guy never lets the opportunity pass to complain about them (and a few of the Rambos at snipershide agree!). Who cares?
I am sure that someone thinks "Elvis on velvet" is a better painting than van Gogh's Starry Night. Who cares?
It is just a matter of perspective. Buy whatever you want.

Jeff Ovington

Coulda fooled me. Obviously you get fooled very easily.
Evidence speaks for itself. You can't shoot that gun worth a crap
instead of sucking up a lot to get advice on how to shoot it properly
your being a complete dick to somebody that only offers free time to
help out.I don't forgive or forget myself, so my offer to help you out is completely out. Can't speak for bigcountry but he maybe a type a guy who can be more forgiving than I.Put it to the test than.Maybe RR can make it work for ya. And he can post the before and after results.Let's really see how you well you really can shoot and not blame everything but yourself.

hometheaterman

When I can't get groups any better than 1.5" or so, I call Browning and they say that you shouldn't expect anything better than 2" from these guns, then I talk to quite a few guys that own them both online and in person, and most of them are telling me that they are getting 2-3" groups with them with ammo they like. Several are saying theirs shoots 5-6" groups with ammo it doesn't like, but once you find ammo it does like it gets groups in the 2" range. Just like mine. I've talked to Big Country who claims that the most of them shoot way better than that, and I've talked to one or two other guys that are getting sub moa groups with there's. Granted theirs are the ones with the BOSS system. I talked to several guys at the local gun shops who have told me that if I'm getting 1.5" groups I'm doing great as the ones they've had haven't done anything close to that. Then the last time I was in a gunshop there was a guy in there complaining that he couldn't get his Browning to shoot worth a crap and wanted to know which ammo they recommended he try next. He was using Winchester Ballistic Silver tips. I asked him which Browning he was shooting and he told me the BAR. I explained to him what ammo shot the best for me, but that it still was 1.5"-2" groups. The shop owner said he also had one, and his shot that with the Winchester ballistic tips, but that's about as good as they get.

So when 95% of the people I've talked to, both in person that own them some have even showed them to me, and online are telling me that theirs doesn't shoot any better than 2-3" groups on average, I find it kind of hard to believe that Big Country has as many as he claims to have that shoot sub moa. The evidence from my research just doesn't show them to be as accurate as he claims they are. So I find it hard to believe it's that I can't shoot, when I'm getting just as good of groups as most of the guys that own them that I've talked to are. Like I said I've had 2-3 others tell me theirs shot well too, but they had the newer ones with the BOSS.

I've also had several friends shoot this gun only to have the same experience I have. One of them is a lot better shot than me. I've seen him shoot 2" groups at 100 yards free handed, and off of a rest, he is a very good shot too. He shot this thing with the exact same results. Another friend who is also probably a slightly better shot than me also tried to shoot it before I found ammo that it seems to like, and he got 5-6" groups just like I was getting. So since no one seems to be able to shoot it any better than I can, since 95% of the people I've talked to say 1.5-2" groups are great for a BAR, and since I've tried everything Big Country has suggested with no change in results, I tend to think he is full of ****, but he loves to tell everyone how much he knows and how much experience he has. If he really had that much experience his opinions on products would be a lot different I suspect.

VAhuntr

Is that really a large enough sample size to make a judgement like that?

sconnyhunter

No, its not.

What HTM, is forgetting, is that the Browning BAR, is far more accurate than he is capable of shooting it. I have found that this is the case with just about every rifle made.

Some have a defect, that others don't.

Another thing that he has forgotten, is that when there are hundreds of thousands of one particular model on the market (spanning decades of production). There are statistically going to be poorer shooting weapons to be found.

Also, unless he's trying to shoot for competition, hes asking too much of his own abilities to get sub MOA groups consistently.

hometheaterman

I'm not sure that all of the guys on the net can shoot better than 2". None of them may be able to. However, in person, I can consistantly shoot better than 1.5" moa with several other rifles. Not one other rifle, but several, and consistantly. I've got two friends that can shoot sub moa groups consistantly one with a Savage 110, and one with their Remington 700. They have both shot my Browning, and neither could get any better results than I was getting. Is it all of us? Maybe, but I highly doubt it when none of us have an issue with others shooting this poorly.

As for the scopes, I agree 100% the VX-I was brought out to compete with lower priced stuff from other manufacturers, and that's exactly the point I've been making. They are comparable to the Barska's, Tasco's, Simmons, etc. The only problem is those all cost $30-60 and the Leupold costs $230. That's my whole point. When compared to other scopes in the $150-200 price range, the Leupold falls short. Now is the VX-III the in the same class? Hell no. Is it a decent scope? Yes it is. However, it's the same way. It's comparable with scopes that a fair bit cheaper. Even in the VX-III line you can get a lot more glass for your money. In the Mark 4 line, maybe you can't get a lot more for your money, but you could upgrade to a Nightforce for not much more and get a ton better scope. So while the Leupold VX-II's and better are decent scopes, you can still in most cases get a lot more glass for the money with other brands.

As for the $30 Tasco, It's not the greatest scope in the world. Instead, I use it as a comparison to demonstrate what the VX-I is on par with. It's similar in the daytime to the Tasco, and worse in low light. Not to mention the Tasco I've used worked perfectly, while the Leupold didn't track right, didn't hold zero after a few months, and just flat out didn't last. Is that saying that none of them work? No, just that the 2 I've had didn't. I'm sure not all of the Tasco's work great either, but glass wise they are very comparable. Other scopes in that price range like the Burris FFII, Vortex Diamondback, etc, have much better glass than both the Leupold and Tasco, and are much better scopes.

That being said, I've also owned a Vari-X IIc and while it worked fine, the glass still was pretty crappy for the price of it. Supposedly the same glass as a VX-I, and it looked very similar. Once again it's on par with my $30 Tasco glass wise, while the $150 Nikon Prostaff blew it out of the water, as well as the Burris FFII that was $200 with a Garmin GPS that blew both the Prostaff and the Leupold out of the water when it comes to clarity.

Seems like everyone here things I've used nothing but a VX-I and a $30 Tasco and that's not the case. I'm not going to tell you the $30 Tasco is the best scope in the world, because it's not, and you can get a lot better scope in the $150-200 price range, but not from Leupold.

20 years ago Leupold might have had great scopes and the best you could get in their price range, but scopes have come along way and there are several other companies with just as good of customer service, better products, and lower prices nowadays than Leupold who seems to sell scopes based on the name on it not the performance.

bigcountry

So you read, right?

Oh my goodness, this is getting better by the min. Now you have owned a Vari-X IIc. Don't forget your imaginary 6500.

bigcountry

Uh oh, somebody has got thier feelings hurt. Dry them eyes, it will be ok.

All these long posts with edits, just for little old me.

Daveboone

Problems with the Leupolds? Many years with the same VX 3 scopes on the same guns (.300 Win Mag, 45-70 Browning and .308) I have never had a problem. My guess is any scope you put on you will have problems with. Are your scopes and mounts professionally mounted? (yes or no, no "ive been doing this for years").
Are you shooting quality ammo, staying with the same brand, Wt. and bulllet? Are you shooting from a proper rest? Are you treating your scopes like a precision piece of optics? Are you carrying your gun in a quality hard gun case? If the answer is yes to all of the above, you are bragging about your current scopes, not cursing them. But you will be cursing the next scopes also if you arent paying attention to the other details first.

hometheaterman

The VX-3 is a lot different scope than the VX-I.
That being said,
The first time I had the VX-I it was professionally mounted. It lasted about 6-7 months, but during most of that time it was sitting not being used. When I went to use it is when it went bad. When I got it back from Leupold, I did mount it myself, but it's honestly not that hard to mount a scope. This time it lasted about 9 months or so most of the which it was sitting. Then it quit holding zero.

The other one also was professionally mounted and was on a muzzle loader when it quit holding zero. It was my buddy's. I bought it from him and got it fixed, but never mounted it on anything.

I'm shooting the same brand of ammo, same lot number, and it's always been quality ammo. The ammo is usually either Federal Fusions or Winchester Power Points or Ballistic Silvertips. I'm shooting off of sandbags, but have also shot it several times out of a vise with very similar results. I don't carry it in a hard case everywhere I go, but honestly, I'm not going to, but I do carry it in a hard case most of the time in a vehicle. When I'm in the woods it gets treated like a hunting rifle I don't walk around with it in a case. My buddy didn't use a case when carrying it in his vehicle, but he doesn't for his other guns either and he doesn't have any issues. The rest of the scopes I've had get treated the same, and some of them get treated worse and don't have any issues holding zero.

The rest of the scopes I've had have given me 0 issues and I've mounted them all myself. Well, one was "professionally" mounted, but they didn't level the reticle so I re did it myself and it works great. As long as you properly torque the mounts, and get the reticle level it's not that much to mounting a scope.