I feel for you guys in NY. I am starting to beleive the same thing is happening to our deer populations in Pa. Some say hunt harder and go deeper into the woods, without knowing anything about our hunting skills or tactics. Maybe some are in denial? Maybe some are blessed with good hunting lands. I don't really know the answers, but I can atleast be honest to say that numbers are way down and i'm a little nervous about it. After all we are paying these people to manage our herd not devour it. To me atleast its worth talking about. I hope things work out for you guys in New York.

Here in 8Y is loaded with deer. The DECALS had a glitch this year and the DEC has fixed it, but it was to late. I don't blame the DEC 100%. But I don't have problems with getting deer. In fact were trying to cut the doe Pop. because the buck/doe ratio is off 15% on our hunting lands in the past 2 years.This year is the first year I'v seen more bucks than does. so it's working.. We don't have the DEC control our hurd.. we control it. That is the privilege of private land. DMP, we have them. We don't abuse them and we don't use them in the summer because of off spring. As far as state land, no idea. I completely agree with Farm Hunter. The DEC is not allll the bad guys here,, think of poachers. Car deer wrecks, winter of 93 and 94 04. wounded deer are not gunna survive normal winters, yotes,, COUGARS haha jk,,Bottem line,don't let the DEC manage your deer. YOU manage.

CORRECTION - your little part of 8Y is "loaded with deer."

The WMU 8Y is down 45% since 2003, and will probably decrease even more when this years harvest is counted.

Count your blessings if you have good deer numbers. It is certainly not the case in most areas in our neck of the woods.

Impossible.

Tens of thousands of acres and a couple hundred thousand hunters is a little tougher to self manage then a couple local farms.

I think this is a major obstacle in our state. Many guys that have a few hundred acres of private land all to themselves and they see good deer numbers all the time because there isn't enough pressure to scare them off or enough hunters to reduce them dramatically.........they develope illusions that this is how it is everywhere in the state.


I'm happy for ya man..........but your case is not indicative of the average hunter in NY.

You know, its funny how its the DECs fault you guys dont see deer. Yes, their explanation of bad wintersis BS, no doubt. We shed hunters dont find all these winter killed deer, yet we find many shed antlers. So much for the theory! BUT...you guys complain that theyre managing the herd wrong. Theres some easy answers here. First off,there are those whoblame all the permits given out in the past. Well, guess who filled all those permits? The hunters. Every year they could, they did. Now those same guys b*tch because they cant get permits! Incredible! Also, I know of alot of successful hunters this year again. Theyve shot some huge bucks in the southern tier this year again. But, some areas just dont have the deer they once did. Welcome to 2005. We couldnt continue to support the record deer numbers of the late eighties andnineties, that was simply too many deer. Also, every year, more and more land gets locked up with multiple owners, as well as development. Add to this that this development supports deer while at the same time making them inaccessable to hunt, and you have a management nightmare! The total numbers suggest certain amounts be harvested, but they cant get into certain areas or zones to do so. So, they scour neighboring areas oftoo manydeer, knowing the deer population will adjust. Thats all that the DEC can do in some areas, and yes, it stinks for hunters. Add to that, less, way less agriculture, and you are just seeing populations really fluctuate from one area to another. I can tell you I still see many good bucks come to my studio, and the deer are still out there, even if not in all areas. The numbers are certainly out there, Ive seen more locked bucks the last 7 years than ever, thats an indication that theres competition within a bucksage group. Its just really hit and miss. States with open ground and solid agriculture like Ohio, Iowa, Illinois and the midwest are still enjoying great deer hunting. Some of those areas have survived over-harvest, CWD scares, and many other factors. I just think we had it too easy for too long. Sometimes a guy needs to learn how to manage his own hunting.

atlisman,, what part of "As far as state land, no idea." dont you understand...one thingi do no,, public land SUCKS for hunting around here.. you got every woodchuck in the woods pushing deer onto MY land!.. how bout' trying to nock on a door and getting permition,, then we would see more,, "I am QDMn' my land and i have lots of deer!" on these posts.. ask yourself what doyou want out of this sport,, you can hunt public land and see nothin,, or a little PR work and hunt land owners prop.

This post could turn into a Private land vs Public land post in a hurry - that would be a shame. I know some great underhunted Stateland - I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Look - the bottom line is that the deer populations are DOWN statewide - as evidenced by lower deer takes (even with "too many permits") - the last two years. In some places TOO much.

DEC has taken some steps to fix the problems - but don't plan on seeing 20 - 30 deer run past your stand on opening day any year soon! Some of you guys are missing the obvious point. Deer HUNTER populations are declining - and faster than you think - thats OUR fault. DEC is forced to try to manage the deer with less hunters - thus MORE tags. Because not everyone can use 3 deer - DEC must manage the deer at a lower population.

Hard hunted lands show the first signsof Deer population decreases -our private lands is a good example - I'd say we have about 1/2 the deer population as 5 years ago. Not that this is all bad!30-40+ deer per square mile was more than most NY habitat can sustain without consequences.I can see the difference already after acouple years incresased harvests.

FH

All i can say is in 9W we are doing well inour group. While i will agree that numbers are down we still have had a good season. We have taken 2 4 points, 3 doe and 2 yearlings. This is 6 guys hunting HARD like its spoused to be!!!. If it were easy everyone would be doing it. Today i dropped a 130lb doe (field dressed) while leaving the woods at around 3:45pm. Doe had to be 3+years old. I just hunted hard on my way out next to a ravinetaking baby steps and i look and there they were, 1 buck (good size rack no shot) 1 large doe and 2 yearlings. I took the big doe. It is hit or miss anywhere you go, sometimes you need to adjust your hunting habits to reflect. I have a spot herefor youatlisman if you need a spot with deer. Just contact me here...

correct in theory but that's a pretty poorsolution to be forced to do. In other words we should take a few years off hunting in hopes of replenishing the herdin our areas. Hope all the neighbors do the same.

Everything has been covered here. The only thing I can add is:

WHAT A COMPLETE JOKE!! (i guess that's been covered as well)

I spend an enormous amount of time in the woods from mid summer to early spring.early scouting, bow season, gun season, late archery, late scouting, shed hunting, looking for my Titleist, etc...... Seems to me it's been on a serious downward spiral for the last 4-5 years. And it's got to the point where currentely IMO it's a complete fiasco.

We can't even manage our buck to doe ratio because we don't see enough of either to know what's out there. I have always practiced QDM and am selective in the bucks I will take (try to). I hate the mentality of being forced to "take what you can get". I'm afraid it's heading that way if it continues at this pace. The old "if it's brown it's down" days will be upon everyone once again. A successful hunt will be seeing a set of tracks in the snow and getting excited about it. It's a shame.

The worst part about it like someone else stated is....... how in the world can I get my 3 sons excited about hunting when they sit in a ground blind with me for hours and not see a single deer. At their ages I'd probably choose playstation too. Same concept as gettiing them involved in fishing. I take them out and catch all the rock bass and perch they can catch and they have an absolute ball. I don't take them trolling for salmon or lakers where the action is few and far between. You can introduce them to the woods, take them squirell hunting, teach them about deer sign and why it's there,etc.... But at the end of the day they need to see deer to get their interest peaked. That's what pisses me off the most about the whole situation.