superdaveisright about the whining part, NICE BUCK BTW jcchartboy... Atlasman...blame everything on the DEC. DEC this DEC that.. its not hunterjoe shooting the fawns or hunterjoe killing spikes,, no no its not everybody and there brother killing anything that moves.If IF every single person that hunted, practiced QDM, you wouldent need a DEC.But thats not the real world.What dose D.E.C. stand for??? do you think they only manage deer herd??? no theres alot of other thingson there mind than how many deer there are in this area buddy. think about it.. its not perfict, and its not like it was,, back then you could shoot anything that moved because there was alot of deer!!!we had lotsof tags,, i do blame the DEC for not catching this in time. and the DEC,,there not on top of it,, most people think thats what they want, no deer or more money,, we will never no the truth,, we no that, YOU no that.. sooo all your gunna do is whine when you should take it in your own hands and hunt your private land with some QDM,, like i said, what do you want out of this sport? you havent answered that?you say poor land conditions,, are you affraid to nock on a door and shake a hand for permition or you wouldent want to lease land? leasing land i think is great because then YOU have more say who can hunt and who cant. IF you make that agreement with the land owner. private land has been hunted for years. how can you predict the future of hunting to say it will disappear do to leasing??? can you readddd thiiiss ookkk, im sorry i dont take the time to proof read,Buti see you got the point. good

look, all im saying is... we have seen these numbers dropping for some time now. we have done something about it knowing there not gunna get any better.Were not gunna relyon some NY department program.we stopped the slotter and started QDM. we were you once complaining about the DEC but we woke up stopped the bickeringand did something aboutit. 3 years now and on our private and leased land our deer numbers are higher than they were when we noticed the numbers dropping. i think you took me the wrong way. im trying to give you advice and this is what i get? im not suprized anymore.

i hunt in 8m and 8n and although I've only hunted really seriously these last two years i thought i saw a lot of deer. but every time i talk to a veteran hunter they all say the same thing, "the population is low", "i use to see tons of deer here", "it's not like it use to be". i don't know why they hand out so many tags either. I'm a conservationist and hate the thought of the DEC pulling a fast one but I'm starting to believe it's true. the land i hunt is public but it has a lot of food and edge and has a lot of different terrain. itholds about mid teens of deer before bow when i scout it but probably should hold double that.

i would like to try a plan like PA has. in like three or four years we could see a lot more bucks and bigger ones too. i just don't know if we could actually get the majority of the hunters to follow it. I'd like to think we could.

i plot food and make mock scrapes on a little plot of private land that boarders a ravine. we have scouted this area since bow but have not yet taken a deer. lots of does but no bucks yet. lots of rubs and BIG hoof prints but no sight of a buck. it's very frustrating. my mom's boyfriend saw 18 does one day. but not one buck. now thats just wrong right there.

it is interesting what you've all seen with the nuisance permits. that is sad that they let them rot when there is a venison donationdrop in almost every town. those farmers are just plane lazy.

I don't know if it will help the deer population around were i hunt but I'm going to try predator hunting this winter. some guy did a study on them in i believe Allegheny county and said that they were the main reason for low fawn numbers. said one den could easily take somewheres in the mid teens in fawn kills a spring. if thats true thats quite a shock to a given area for the deer pop to recharge.

we'll good luck to you atlasman, hope you can at least fill the freezer and get a decent buck.

No........it's not. You are acting like these guys were shooting those deer while being told that the herd was way down and we should not shoot too many because they wouldn't recover. That's not what they were being told at all. The DEC was feeding everyone the BS of out of control herd numbers and gave out countless tags for everyone to go out and slaughter them. Why would a hunter think he shouldn't pull the trigger if the DEC is telling him that the herd is out of control. Most hunters probably shot MORE then usual trying to do their part to control what they thought was reality..........in fact they were doing damage when they thought they were doing the right thing.



Well they don't........and never will........so we do.


Well which is it??


Already told you I hunt plenty of private land.........you have to actually read the thread if you want to participate.


The handwriting is on the wall.


Get hooked on phonics man

The freezer is full..............only seen one 4 pt in over 150 hours of hunting so the decent buck hopes are long gone for this year.

Bro don't get me wrong here i am in no way picking on you nor am i challenging your hunting skills. I understand your flustration.I am just saying that maybe another spot will produce better results. I know i have had to change up at time during the season and move to better digs and try to find them and i usally do find them. Today at 4:10pm my son shot a nice doe he was coming back to the house because he had to do the 2 and boom there she was... no offence intended my friend.

I think the divorce rate is going to increase if the deer pop doesn't come up, hahaha. My wife is ready to boot me in the butt if this season doesn't end soon. I'm in the woods every chance I get this year. At least 4-5 days every wk. I'm still deerless, and she's glad the Northern Tier just ended Sun., and knows I got 1 wknd left in the south. If I don't get a deer this wknd, I don't know how I'm going to tell her there's a late B.P. season yet!!! Its Christmas time of the year to her, and I'm still in the gotta get a deer mode.
Someone mentioned we got used to hunting being easier. Well I'm not so sure there. Huntings always been difficult, but under different circumstances. In the 80's when we would see 20-30 doe in a day. You'd have to hunt hard to find a buck. Alot more areas then were w/o doe permits, and even then you could shoot a buck on your doe permit. Its was just nice to see all those deer. Now as the yrs have passed we have to hunt hard just to see a deer.
I do fully agree hunters willl become less selective in their harvests with less deer being seen. I haven't shot a fawn deer in 18yrs. I shot two in my first 3yrs of hunting, as a young hunter looking to shoot any deer. Now I like to let them walk. To me thats next yrs fun. But for the first time in 18yrs going into the last wknd deerless. If a fawn comes upon me in those final mins. I'm not sure I won't pull that trigger. I won't be happy about it, and probably cuss the DEC for forcing me into such a decision to begin with. Yes it'll be my decision. But not 1 hunter out there can tell me they plan to hunt all season long, and go deerless. But its what were being forced into.
Ok so hunters do make the choices on what deer to harvest. But the DEC leads us to believe the population is good enough to fill that doe permit they issued us. I let two doe walk in 6k, during early bow w/last seasons tag!! Becasue I figured the pop was too low in my area. But not everyone has the time or availability to spend hrs.,and money on game cams to figure out exactly what your deer pop is like. Plus alot of hunters are forced on public land, or well hunted private sections. Less, and less hunters have access to their own little paradise. We has hunters have come to rely on the DEC for keeping a balanced, and healthy herd. Its what they do.
Worst winter in 100yrs. Stop, I don't buy that for a minute. What exactly classify's this so called worst winter? We've had a couple doosies the past 2 yrs in accumulations, and a wk of minus temps. But we've had higher populations after alot worse conditions.Besides I was always taught in college the worst part of the winter for deer is March, when the temps begin to warm, and the food sources are depleted. No new growth yet. Deer are still wearing heavy winter coats, and burn more energy in the higher temps searching for any left over food.
All in all the deer pop is lower, and if the DEC continues to issue less permits for 2006, and beyondit should rebound in most areas ok. But the question remains how far are they willing to let it rebound. I'm worried 7m will see too many permits for 2006 again. To me even a med 1st chance would be too high. Least from what I've seen. 6K should be w/o any permits for 2006, why they issued any this year is beyond me.
Next I wonder if the DEC's whole mgmt system should be upgraded to the times. If the times, and environment as changed so much. Shouldn't their system of mgmt. Figuring so many bucks should be taken per square mile in each wmu, to manage numbersdoesn't seem to be working. But I'm probably just placing my foot in my mouth on that one! [8D]

I hear ya.........I have been in the woods more then I have been in my house over the last 7 weeks. I bet I have spent well over $500 in gas driving around all season so far. I know my wife pointed out that I had spent $200 in gas over a 10 day period at one point []

She asked me why I don't just pay to go hunt somewhere and enjoy a trip and also see some nice deer. I am starting to consider that as a logical option.


What a wonderful way to get kids interested in hunting huh??


With deer numbers so low I wouldn't even dream of letting anything walk.........I can't even hardly find any deer......let alone be selective about what I take. It is so bad now that I won't even go out unless it is in my doe tag area because having only seen one buck all year doesn't make me feel like I have too good a chance in areas where all I have to fill is my buck tag.


I am sure I WILL pull the trigger.


Exactly.


It's what they are supposed to do.


Bottom line is that people are just starting to realize that the DEC doesn't know what the hell the real status of the deer herd is........they have been getting by on guessing for so long and fortunately for them the herd was at a level that didn't suffer because of their stupidity. Then they went and got too smart or greedy for their own good and gave away permits like maniacs............and now we have a mess on our hands and they have no idea how to fix it.........or maybe they don't want it fixed.

They will come out in the spring and say the numbers are down and blame the snow and low hunters blah, blah, blah and then they will tell everyone what a great state NY is for deer hunting all through the year and to expect great things for 2006..........smae crap........different year.

Anyone read the outdoors section of the newspaper every sunday?? Are these guys paid to pump up NY deer hunting or what?? All they do is tell everyone how great the season is going and how many big bucks are falling to local hunters. WTF?? Who is cutting them a check??.......Showing some idiot who shot a 10 pointer on his grampa's dairy farm and telling everyone how great the area is for deer is practically libel.

Here is my take on this. I believe the dec is guilty of allowing the deer herds to over populate in many regions of nys. I think over 50 dpsm in the area I hunt.I'm not sure if they had the power to controlthe deer population or not. It may have to do with loweramounts of hunters in the woods.
In 2002 I use to see herds of over 150 deer concentrations. It is my belief that because the DEC didn't for see that a harsh winter was in our future and allowed the deer population to explode out of control. We are in this situation.before 2002 we had about 10 years of mild winters witch allowed the population to increase to a level that the DEC couldn't control with just hunters as tools. Or they could have and did nothing about it.Because of this we were setup for a harsh reality. Most of the deer are gone because of starvation. I witnessed this first hand. Believe what you want tobut I was there in Jan and Feb of 03 and saw with my own eyes what a starving deer looks like. The DEC should have never allowed the population to get out of control to the point that it wiped out most of the herd. If they were handing out 10 dmp tags before 02 today we wouldn't be in this position. The only good that has come out of this is that the quality of the deer, antler development, is much better and the buck doe ratio is much closer than it was. Since it is to late to do anything about it now we should concentrate on the future. Do your part when the DEC gives dmp's. Use them. It is clear that the tool (hunter) is depleting. Today there are better deer in the woods. I shot a niceeight point this year and my brotherinlaw shot a very large 8 point in the (Catskills). The deer are still there and are much bigger than before. It is our job to manage the land that we hunt. I know that when you see deer it makes you feel good but the fact is that when you see to many your going to get wiped out soon. A harsh winter in the Catskills can't sustain higher than 14 to 18 deer psm. Face the facts and try to keep this level of deer. They will be much healthier and you will see much better head gear.

I'm in 8h, and unfortunnately (fortunately for those of us who hunt it) we can't say the same thing as the rest of the state. 8H actually saw an INCREASE in DMP's from 2004!!!!!!!!!!

And I can't complain either, because I've seen enough does to feel it is warranted in bow, and my limited shotgun hunting this year.

I have only seen 2 smaller bucks in the woods, and one real monster who busted me during bow. Last year, I saw 12 bucks (at least 7 were different) during bow. I haven't come across one yet in gun, although I know several of the ones I had scouted have been shot by neighboring hunters.

It pains me to hear of people having trouble even seeing deer, when 8h can't level their own numbers. On the second Saturday, I saw a group of 15 does (with yearlingsmixed in). I only got one DMP, and had to let them go because I had already tagged it on opening day. I know the bucks are around, so I feel my immediate area is doing A-OK.

What I think will stink if we resort to having to tell other hunters what a trophy is to them. This bad season (state-wise) will lead to an even more HEATED off-season than last year.

I've only been able to get out 4 days this shotgun season due to a family health problem. Luckily, I was able to fill the freezer on opening day. Bow season was nice because I tagged a buck I and the farmers had watched over summer, although it was a scrub buck.

Technically, I'm the polar opposite of you guys right now. I've shot two deer (1 bow/1 gun [1 5pt and 1 doe]) but haven't been able to get out as nearly much as I normally do, and IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY. So just make sure tobe thankful you can actually get out there.

Wow...........You want MORE dmp's and MORE does killed??? Great idea



Your shooting of these 2 deer proves this how?? When are people gonna understand that when a story comes along about a guy 5 hills over that killed a big buck it doesn't mean anything.........other then one guy saw one good deer on one day. Why so many latch onto a story like that and cling to it like a life jacket is beyond me. It's one isolated case.........no different then someone saying they have deer all over their uncle's farm and thinking that is the way it is where everyone hunts in the state.


No........it's really not. That is what the DEC is for.


Head gear is the last thing to worry about..............how can anyone possibly be worried about antlers when a much bigger issue is at hand