All i can say is in 9W we are doing well inour group. While i will agree that numbers are down we still have had a good season. We have taken 2 4 points, 3 doe and 2 yearlings. This is 6 guys hunting HARD like its spoused to be!!!. If it were easy everyone would be doing it. Today i dropped a 130lb doe (field dressed) while leaving the woods at around 3:45pm. Doe had to be 3+years old. I just hunted hard on my way out next to a ravinetaking baby steps and i look and there they were, 1 buck (good size rack no shot) 1 large doe and 2 yearlings. I took the big doe. It is hit or miss anywhere you go, sometimes you need to adjust your hunting habits to reflect. I have a spot herefor youatlisman if you need a spot with deer. Just contact me here...