NYSDEC is a joke
12-03-2005, 06:13 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Went out all afternoon with 4 other guys...........put on drives......pushed every set of pines, brush and thick crap we could find.
No deer..........couple old tracks...........another lousy day in the NY deer woods thanks to the DEC.
Nothing like spending 8 hours in the woods with other guys and covering miles of ground and not even seeing a tail.
What a mockery.
No deer..........couple old tracks...........another lousy day in the NY deer woods thanks to the DEC.
Nothing like spending 8 hours in the woods with other guys and covering miles of ground and not even seeing a tail.
What a mockery.
12-03-2005, 08:00 PM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: syracuse,NY
Posts: 458
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: thesource
I agree that is as bad as I have ever seen it BUT....
you are only adding to the problem when you call in DMP and you haven't actually filled them.
The DEC bases all of their decisions on harvest. Harvest a lot - there must be too many deer. Didn't harvest enough? OOps, there must be fewer deer than we thought.
By saying you got a doe when you didn't, you are leading the DEC to believe there are more deer than there truly are.
You should stop doing that.
ORIGINAL: stretchhunts
I hunt 7F and I will say this is the worst yr since I started hunting in 1994. I also remember going out and any givin day seeing 20-30 deer. I saw 3 does and a 4 pt all bow season on the 58 acres I hunt.I don`t know what is to blame. I do agree that the DEC is giving out way to many doe permits, but we don`t need to shoot the does. In the11 yrs I`ve been hunting I`ve only shot one doe.The 6 guys I hunt with all believe that for every doe we shoot we could be killing one or two bucks. I also call in all my doe tags evanthough I didn`t shoot any. I just hope it gets better around here. I got 2 sons who want to hunt but do`t know if they will stick wih it if they don`t see anything.
Mike
I hunt 7F and I will say this is the worst yr since I started hunting in 1994. I also remember going out and any givin day seeing 20-30 deer. I saw 3 does and a 4 pt all bow season on the 58 acres I hunt.I don`t know what is to blame. I do agree that the DEC is giving out way to many doe permits, but we don`t need to shoot the does. In the11 yrs I`ve been hunting I`ve only shot one doe.The 6 guys I hunt with all believe that for every doe we shoot we could be killing one or two bucks. I also call in all my doe tags evanthough I didn`t shoot any. I just hope it gets better around here. I got 2 sons who want to hunt but do`t know if they will stick wih it if they don`t see anything.
Mike
you are only adding to the problem when you call in DMP and you haven't actually filled them.
The DEC bases all of their decisions on harvest. Harvest a lot - there must be too many deer. Didn't harvest enough? OOps, there must be fewer deer than we thought.
By saying you got a doe when you didn't, you are leading the DEC to believe there are more deer than there truly are.
You should stop doing that.
12-03-2005, 08:08 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
atlasman -
I believe that you are not having a good year - but I think you are off base to blame the DEC for it all.
The System isn't perfect - but its not as bad as you think. If the DEC is giving out Doe permits for your WMU - then they have good reason to think the herd can support some numbers of does harvested. In 7M - not even landowners could get doe permits this year - and its a LARGE WMU - last year it was very limited.
Now - its not Micro management - and your exact hunting acreage may be way down. Maybe it will change on its own, but probably not.Get involved ant call your Region Manager - maybe he can share the harvest information for your town with you.
Like PA - there are alot of hunters in NY - yet the Hunter Numbers are decreasing - so the DEC is trying to allow similar deer numbersto be harvested - by less people- for the future. In some areas I agree they Jumped the gun ( coupled by 2 of the worst winters in 100years - back to back - really - no joke!) - and there are less deer than desired. I think they are trying to fix that now.
FH
I believe that you are not having a good year - but I think you are off base to blame the DEC for it all.
The System isn't perfect - but its not as bad as you think. If the DEC is giving out Doe permits for your WMU - then they have good reason to think the herd can support some numbers of does harvested. In 7M - not even landowners could get doe permits this year - and its a LARGE WMU - last year it was very limited.
Now - its not Micro management - and your exact hunting acreage may be way down. Maybe it will change on its own, but probably not.Get involved ant call your Region Manager - maybe he can share the harvest information for your town with you.
Like PA - there are alot of hunters in NY - yet the Hunter Numbers are decreasing - so the DEC is trying to allow similar deer numbersto be harvested - by less people- for the future. In some areas I agree they Jumped the gun ( coupled by 2 of the worst winters in 100years - back to back - really - no joke!) - and there are less deer than desired. I think they are trying to fix that now.
FH
12-03-2005, 10:50 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sackets Harbor, New York
Posts: 2,509
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
i tend to think that the situation will correct itself. If you are having a bad season this year, and less deer are being harvested, those few deer that survive unscathed will reproduce and yeild a better population next year.
And if DEC sees the lower harvest this year and either keeps DMPs the same or slightly lowers them next year, the population can recover quite quickly.
maybe im stating the obvious here, i dont know. Populations fluctuate, and a lower harvest this year *may* translate into a better one enxt year. I know this doesn't fill your freezer this year, but if you are blaming it on DMPs, then someones freezer has been getting filled.
And if DEC sees the lower harvest this year and either keeps DMPs the same or slightly lowers them next year, the population can recover quite quickly.
maybe im stating the obvious here, i dont know. Populations fluctuate, and a lower harvest this year *may* translate into a better one enxt year. I know this doesn't fill your freezer this year, but if you are blaming it on DMPs, then someones freezer has been getting filled.
12-04-2005, 08:32 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
This has nothing to do with "this" year. This has been a trend for who knows how many years now. Deer numbers are WAY down from years past. Yet, all you hear out of the DEC is how their numbers are spiraling out of control and we need to kill more and more and more of them every year........less hunters and more deer blah blah blah. BS!!!! Anyone who has spent time in the woods of NY over the last couple decades knows that you don't see anywhere the numbers of deer that you used to. Back in the days of guys wearing the doe permit arm band and 5 guys to a permit there were deer all over the place..........now when you are lucky to see a couple deer together......every guy in the woods has a pocket full of permits. WTF?? It's backwards.
NYSDEC better wake up.........they are a big reason for declining hunting numbers. How in the hell can they expect anyone to get a kid interested in hunting when that kid goes out and sits in the freezing cold for days at a time and sees no deer??
My freezer is full...........always is. The big difference now is that we have to hunt rediculous amounts of days and hours to accomplish what we have done quite easily in the past. Most guys aren't willing or able to hunt as long or hard as we get to and that leaves a lot of guys with empty freezers........how long will that go on before those guys start saying "Screw this" and finding better ways to spend their vacation time and the $68 license fee??
NYSDEC better wake up.........they are a big reason for declining hunting numbers. How in the hell can they expect anyone to get a kid interested in hunting when that kid goes out and sits in the freezing cold for days at a time and sees no deer??
My freezer is full...........always is. The big difference now is that we have to hunt rediculous amounts of days and hours to accomplish what we have done quite easily in the past. Most guys aren't willing or able to hunt as long or hard as we get to and that leaves a lot of guys with empty freezers........how long will that go on before those guys start saying "Screw this" and finding better ways to spend their vacation time and the $68 license fee??
12-04-2005, 09:16 AM
#28
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 224
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I think they already are saying "screw this."
We are losing non-residents this year like crazy. They are not willing to pony up the $$$for three reasons:
1) CWD and the export rules.
2) No DMP for NR
3) A much smaller deer herd - and tougher hunting.
I have already seen resident hunters doing the same. I heard a couple of guys buying licenses this year complaining that they are paying $10 to "play the lottery" for a losy 30% shot at a DMP. They didn't draw...and were pretty pissed. They said they can find better things to do with their time than chase the last antlered deer around Steuben County.
I don't think its quite that bad...but its bad.
Steuben County always leads the state in Total Deer Harvest and Buck Harvest. We won't do it this year, for either statistic. They have absolutely hammered down the herd here.
Do not expect it to get better quickly, either (although it will get better if they keep the DMP down).
Whitetails are remarkably prolific creatures, but as Atlasman points out there are still plenty of tags. The DECALS 3/2 system and the fact you can fill all your empty tags in MZ means a few hunters can continue to pound hell out of a very specific locality.
We are losing non-residents this year like crazy. They are not willing to pony up the $$$for three reasons:
1) CWD and the export rules.
2) No DMP for NR
3) A much smaller deer herd - and tougher hunting.
I have already seen resident hunters doing the same. I heard a couple of guys buying licenses this year complaining that they are paying $10 to "play the lottery" for a losy 30% shot at a DMP. They didn't draw...and were pretty pissed. They said they can find better things to do with their time than chase the last antlered deer around Steuben County.
I don't think its quite that bad...but its bad.
Steuben County always leads the state in Total Deer Harvest and Buck Harvest. We won't do it this year, for either statistic. They have absolutely hammered down the herd here.
Do not expect it to get better quickly, either (although it will get better if they keep the DMP down).
Whitetails are remarkably prolific creatures, but as Atlasman points out there are still plenty of tags. The DECALS 3/2 system and the fact you can fill all your empty tags in MZ means a few hunters can continue to pound hell out of a very specific locality.
12-04-2005, 09:31 AM
#29
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: syracuse,NY
Posts: 458
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Just wanted to say the CWD is in Madison and Oienda county`s only the transport rules apply for these 2 counties only. The 58 acres I hunt I`ve seen a total of 4 deer/ 3 does and a buck. I shot the buck after only seeing him for a month. If he got all 3 does pregnant it`ll be a good 3-4 yrs from now before the babies are shot worthy, well if they happen to be bucks(we don`t shoot does on our land). I also think not shooting the does is one of our personal problems. As a doe gets older she is more apt to have does not bucks. I`ve got a wife who got into hunting 4 yrs ago and has yet had a chance to shoot a buck. I`m worried that if the deer numbers don`t get better she`ll stop and It`ll make it real had to get my 2 son`s in the sport. I do agree the DEC is ruining hunting but there is also alot of other factors.
12-04-2005, 10:30 AM
#30
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: West Winfield New York USA
Posts: 545
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Atlasman, I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything but, I know you always say what is on your mind, so here it goes.. If you have so few deer in your area, why are yor killing them? Sure I know you want the meat, and you haveevery right to but the herd can not repopulate with dead deer. If you are killing does you will just have less deer next year. If the DEC can't get in right it's up to the ones pulling the trigger. Hope I wasnt to harsh. www.pbase.com/mlo3135127 & www.wildturkey.smugmug.com