I don't know what this proves,other than even when required by law not to,outlaws are considering themselves above the law and killing 1.5 year old bucks.I wont speculate as to why,why do you think that is?
I don't know the size of this sample for the poll,who istypically more vocal,those who are pleased with something or displeased? Displeased by at least 5 to 1 marketing experts would tell you.
There is an article in this mornings newspaper,headline Antler project proves to be big success ( 3C and 3J).I havn't read it yet,so I can't quote 8 million segments from it.The gentleman who was the driving force behind the introduction of it is a friend and fellow QDMA member.
From a personal perspective I saw more 2.5 year old year old bucks in last years archery season than ever before,I saw 10 racked bucks,that would have made the three on a side criteria.I know it is working.

That was the point that I was making that by letting 1.5 year old bucks walk,hunters are creating greater opportunity for younger or inexperienced hunters.

I respect any one who consistently kills deer by still hunting methods bow or rifle,with bowof coursebeing more difficult.
I havn't made comments asto my prowess as a hunter.I have only killed one deer from the ground while still hunting with a bow,it was a 2.5 year old eight pointer that I shot at 39 yards,if it matters to anyone.
I have killed many deer from the ground while still hunting with a rifle and muzzleloader.If I had an interest in killing doe's or 1.5 year old bucks in that manner I feel quite certain that it is within my capability.

We have a difference of opinion obviously. I always enjoy myself while doing any thing in the woods.While I am dissapointed if I don't shoot a buck that meets my criteria I am not heart broken.It is all good!
I don't need to kill something with calcium on it's head to validate me as a hunter,and I am not saying you do,but many do!
Obviously you and Charlie P can shoot any animal that is legal and that is your perogative.
I guarantee that there are many folks here that wouldn't bring either of you into their hunting area's with them being aware of an intent to kill a 1.5 year old buck!
I don't say it with anger,I say it as a matter of fact,any experienced hunter with that interst is not going to hunt with me.It doesn't mean that they may not be a friend,or a fine human being.

Maybe you should take a walk in the woods during a bad NY winter. During the winter of 2003 I found 39 dead butterballs, the following winter I found 17. One deer was dead and still standing up in the deep snow. Maybe some of you guys should get out a little more.

Here in 7j (no AR), I saw at least 12 bucks w/3 per side at least that where obviously 1 1/2 yo. My hunting partner saw even more. 75% plus of our sitings. Under the AR in 3c & j, all would meet the criteria of legal. How would targeting them make the herd "healthy here?

Supposedly QDMA is not about antler size, but a balanced collection of conditions that must bemet for in order to achieve a healthy herd - older (not bigger racked) bucks is claimed to be a side benefit and not the goal in any way. Why would QDMA members be the driving force behind a method of management whose goal is not the one claimed to be the reason for QDMA practise?

To me this perfectly supports Atlas's claim that (at least here in NY), the small but vocal push for mandatory AR (by mainly QDMA members) is nothing more then an attempt to mandate TM and hide it as QDM.

Steve

Nature at work - what management practices short of feeding would have prevented this?

NYS is a large state with vastly differing conditions and habitat - a one size fits all approach will never work - what would benefit one area would devastate another.

Steve

I don't believe I said AR and QDMA were oneand the same.In fact I know I didn't.QDMA members and most everyone else believes they are not oneand the same.
The gentleman that I spoke of initiated the antler restriction program,with much support from around the region as well as the DEC.All of this was done before he was a QDMA member.
I am not going to defend or debate a premise that I did not make!

There are 73 wmu's in NYS
20 of them require priority points (points given for not being drawn in the past) to have a chance at a doe permit. No 2nd permits.
43 total have no 2nd permits to be issued.
This means in well over 1/2 the state, there is an excellent chance a regular season deer hunter will not have a doe permit.

Would the group who says "just shoot a doe instead" tell me how these hunters would be able to do this?

Steve

Nope your wrong