Spaniel, There is a core group of Michigan hunters shooting this gun. It is made in Michigan,and to the best of my knowledge, there has been no national adverising, so I think most people who shoot them heard about it word of mouth. Now for you to say the company has a group of "shooters they periodically send around the message boards" you must be sniffing your gunpowder. I think you could probably be sued for saying such a thing. If you are implying thats what I am doing, you are a fool. If you really didshoot a deer at 338 yards with an Omega, (and you"ve proven you are not truthful, by saying that about the Michigan shooters) do yourself a favor and borrow an ultimate. With your long range ability, you are handicapping yourself with your omega. Now go back to sniffing your pyrodex!

Pyrodex kicks butt. Long range muzzleloaders with high power scopes take all the fun out of muzzleloading.

My my aren't we testy....does a little application or rational thought to ballistics and shooting take the air out of your pretty $3000 balloon? That's a bit of an immature post, don't you think?

Go ahead and sue me. It's a little disturbing that you are a teacher if you really think I could be sued for that.

I'm from Michigan and have been familiar with the Ultimate for almost as long as they have made them. I know several people with them, and none of them tell the lavish stories of them eating pyrodex residue that you do. I know a guy who shoots with the makers, and he says they seem to foul a little less than his Encore but it's not a big difference.

As for my 338 yd shot, there was a witness I didn't even know until afterwards. I hope you have witnesses to your Ultimate absorbing pyrodex residue.

BOYS! For the last time, be nice. If you don't cut it out I'm going to track you down and force you to drink very cold beer.

beer where where, did someone say beer

I do not undestand all the bickering here. Long range shooting is limited by one factor"The Shooter". The guy pulling the trigger is the limiting factor. I have been practicing with my Sharp's 45-70, and I am shooting effectively out to 400 yards with a 405 grain cast bullet at 1600 fps. I have seen guys that can hit at 800 yards and beyond. I believe my 405 grain cast bullet would humanely kill a deer at 500 yards if "I" was capable of making the shot. Every one is discussing all the limiting factor's. I am sure that a quality built firearm can make the shot. Again the limiting factor is always the "Shooter". Tom.

Someone with 35 posts cracking on someone with 25?

Don is from Michigan where the UM is made - not a hugh coincidence he would have one in my opinion.
I appreciate any reviews on products I am not familiar with - and would like to think I can sort thru the wheat and chaff for what I feel is relevant.
Spaniel - you can present your opinions on the rifle (if indeed you have experiance with it) without trying to bolster said opinion by tearing down someone else's - which achieves the opposite effect.

Steve

Spaniel, it was immature...Sorry. Read the thread again, very slowly. I didn't say I would sue you for your false claim. Read very carefully so you can pass the quiz LOL I too have shot with the makers (they will shoot with you, if you are considering the gun---small outfit) No one who shoots that gun will say that they foul "a little less" than the Encore. I've shot both. Its about the ignition system. TRUCE, MAN! If you can, we should get together since you are in Michigan too. You can teach me how to shoot at incredible distances, and I can show you how to clean a special $1600 muzzleloader in less than 2 minutes. Then, we can pound some really cold beers and discuss something non-controversial, like politics or religion! I would even buy the beer for the unknown witness lurking in the woods watching you and the deer 338 yards from you!
Seriously, if you would like to shoot my gun or share info, let me know. No hard feelings! Donn

Force me to drink cold beer? I'm not sure that threat will acheive the desired effect! ;D

You did say I could be sued (not that you WOULD, you are correct), but you did become VERY hostile. This is what led me to agree with a previous post that you could just have joined here to spam about the gun. Yes, I only have 10 more posts than you, but they are spread across quite a number of topics.

I am sure it is a great gun, if it was $700 or so I would probably have bought one years ago, a bunch of us were thinking of negotiating a group buy at one time until we learned what the base price was. It just doesn't make sense for most of us given that, as head001 agreed, the shooter is the limiting factor at those ranges. It's like comparing a 308 and 300WinMag and touting the 300WinMag as a better gun at 400 yards. Sure, the WinMag is better on deer if you're shooting 1000 yards, but wind drift is still a big issue. But at 400 yards the WinMag still drops enough that you have to compensate, so with a rangefinder there is no advantage, and at 400 yards the 308 still packs plenty of punch. In the same way I agree the Ultimate is better on the envelope but at reasonable ranges the benefit is marginal. So I'm not ripping on you or the gun, but stating my opinion based on the resulting ballistics.

Maybe our disagreement on the fouling is subjective, I'll give you that. With 777 I clean my Omega with 5 patches, also under 2 minutes. Pyrodex fouling is not water soluble so that takes longer but I haven't shot it since 777 came out.

I have always wanted to shoot an Ultimate, I was going to get together with a guy in MI but moved out of state before I could make it happen.

Would that be one of the new "high octane" beers or regular traditional beer?
Art