Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Black Powder
 Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer. >

Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

Black Powder Ask opinions of other hunters on new technology, gear, and the methods of blackpowder hunting.

Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

Old 07-09-2006, 09:45 AM
  #1  
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Default Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

It has rained everyday now for over a week. In a place where 10.5 " is average, that is definitely not normal. Anyway I just got back from the range (located on some nearby BLM), which was closed due to wet weather. So I didn't get to solve the mystery of why 70 grains RSand BB410 had higher velocity than 75 grains Pyro P and a Hrn. 385. I intend to switch the charges and see if its powder or bullet causing the unexpected outcome.

Also, I went back to the Springs yesterday to the "Mountain Man" shop, and picked up 3f Goex, and 3f AP powder. Also got some stuff I needed for my hawken, to include the 1075 caps and a new hot shot nipple. Was like a kid in a candy store and my wife didn't complain at all .

Yesterday, my nephew shot the Sidekick for the the first time. It was at the end of a range session where we had been plinking with a scoped .22. Just trying to get him used to firing arifle in order to get himready for 2nd Season Elk in which he drew a cow. Anyway, I only loaded 50 grains and a 270 ballet. His first shot at 25 yards was right in the bullseye but he complained about the recoil. So we had him shoot it once more not wanting it to "buck him off" so to speak. This time he said that "it wasn't bad at all", but I happened to see that his second shot was 2" off. Must have flinched. Got to talking with my brother and we decided that with a projectile twice the weightand a velocity half that of his .270, the recoil was somewhere in the neighborhood of a .270 rifle which is what he'll be shooting for 2nd season Elk.We'll let him try the ML again later. Needless to say, he was impressed with the "size of the hole" a .50 cal projectile makes!

Happy Hunting, Phil
Pglasgow is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 10:04 AM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

ORIGINAL: Pglasgow


Also, I went back to the Springs yesterday to the "Mountain Man" shop, and picked up 3f Goex, and 3f AP powder. Also got some stuff I needed for my hawken, to include the 1075 caps and a new hot shot nipple. Was like a kid in a candy store and my wife didn't complain at all .
Phil

You are using all the best noodles inside your brain. Had you typed 'Goex "Express" FFF, then I would of changed that to 'ultimum noodles"...lol

Wipe off the lube from both of them bullets& measure their diameters with a micrometer. Then.... instead of using their original lubes to recover the bullet, try something generic like bore butter. Now fire both bullets with the same lube. That may tell you why the target holes are showingdifferently.

When all else fails... we all need to use our noodles more...[X(]
Triple Se7en is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 10:29 AM
  #3  
Dominant Buck
 
cayugad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

Those 270 grain Ball-ets work really well out of some of the inlines. I normally shoot them with about 80 grains of powder with excellent results. I just figure that little extra weight with a pure lead projectiles would sure make a critter have a bad day.
cayugad is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 12:54 PM
  #4  
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

ORIGINAL: cayugad

Those 270 grain Ball-ets work really well out of some of the inlines. I normally shoot them with about 80 grains of powder with excellent results. I just figure that little extra weight with a pure lead projectiles would sure make a critter have a bad day.
The 270 ballet is fast becomingmy all around favorite. Like you, I think 80 grains is the Goldi-locks charge for trajectory with out leading. Gets the 270 traveling about 1700 fps. Though I have toconfess, I would prefer it to be solid point atthose velocities, liking solids for impact above 1300 fps. For deer, Ithinkthis is a great bullet. Were it a solid point, I think it would reliably take elk to 100 yard (double lung), though I would not use it for that purpose if they were available.

I like ballets for cost, cost to propel, ease to load, and as a range substitute for heavier projectiles which tend to make my shoulder sore. I really like them for beginners. Say someone loads it without powder. The bullet is already tapped (the hollowpoint) for the bullet puller. It's great range bulletthat will definitely take deer sized game. If I were going to complain about anything, its their availability. Most shopsonly carry the 245 or PA conicals. Even Cabelas doesn't carry them. I have found them at http://Cheaperthandirt.com.

For anyone who has used the 245 and not the 270, the 270 IS NOT a 245 with a little more weight. The profile of the 270 is ballistically superior to the 245 having a pleasant large radius (forits weight) ogive. I've been using .12 for its BC and I think that figureis close. I'm pretty sure the 245 is below .10 for its B.C. In the future, I plan to use chrony data to calcuate a real world BC for it.

Even while 60 grains is a small charge (MV 1497fps), within 75 yards, I think it makes a potent deer killer with modest recoil for kids learning the sport. Small charge, small bullet is more forgiving of the mistakes beginners may make. May be my nephew's load when we draw our deer next time (we both failed to draw this year).

Happy Hunting, Phil
Pglasgow is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 01:23 PM
  #5  
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en

Phil

You are using all the best noodles inside your brain. Had you typed 'Goex "Express" FFF, then I would of changed that to 'ultimum noodles"...lol
LOL. Triple Se7en,now I won't be able to "stand still" until I get back there and see if they have the Express. I did not see it on the shelf, but then, neither was the 3f, hehad to goto a safe to get it out.

Wipe off the lube from both of them bullets& measure their diameters with a micrometer. Then.... instead of using their original lubes to recover the bullet, try something generic like bore butter. Now fire both bullets with the same lube. That may tell you why the target holes are showingdifferently.
The two loads were printing roughly the same at 50 yards. What was odd is that the 410s were roughly 50fps faster with 70 grains RS than the 385 GPs with 75 grains pyro P. The GP's pattern was darn near a cloverleaf at 50 yards while the mean radius of the BB410's was a little over twice that (5/8").

The GP's are very tight in the Sidekick. I don'tremember them ever loading so hard in the hawken. I used a lubricated wad under the BB410 but not the GP's.

Happy Hunting, Phil
Pglasgow is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 03:01 PM
  #6  
Dominant Buck
 
cayugad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

Goes Express would also be stored in the safe as it meets the requirements of the explosive regulations. You'd have to ask for it if they carry it.

I never could understand why they demand Goex be locked in a safe every night or kept there even during business hours by many, but Pyrodex and the others can sit right out there on a shelf. Face it, they all could blow up.

I just got my new case of Goex which I make a mixture ofGoex 2f, 3f, Swiss 2f, 3f and this time I got some KIK 3f just to experiment with it. Of course I had to get my usualy pound of Pinnacle 3f. My other powders should be here next week. So then all the testing can really get into full swing.
cayugad is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 04:52 PM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

ORIGINAL: cayugad

I just got my new case of Goex which I make a mixture ofGoex 2f, 3f, Swiss 2f, 3f and this time I got some KIK 3f just to experiment with it. Of course I had to get my usualy pound of Pinnacle 3f. My other powders should be here next week. So then all the testing can really get into full swing.
You bought a mixed case of 25 & now you have even more coming? I thought I shot alot -going thru3 jugsper year. Sounds like you go through one jug per month.

Such is the life of a retiree with a shooting range in his back yard. I dream of those days in my future.
Triple Se7en is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 05:12 PM
  #8  
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

ORIGINAL: cayugad

Goes Express would also be stored in the safe as it meets the requirements of the explosive regulations. You'd have to ask for it if they carry it.

I never could understand why they demand Goex be locked in a safe every night or kept there even during business hours by many, but Pyrodex and the others can sit right out there on a shelf. Face it, they all could blow up.
Certainly could. But these additional restrictions (or regulations) are the reason so many retailers have chosen not to offer BP. At Sportsman's Warehouse, they made BP out as an awful choice for safety, citing its ignition temperature.

After leaving Sportsman's Warehouse, my wife who tends to worry about everything said, "Well by the time the temperature in the house gets to 350 degrees, won't we be dead orthe house be burning downanyway?" I just smiled and nodded .

It seems that Sportsman's Warehouse does not consider the juice of keeping black powder worthits squeeze, and granted,I bought a bottle of Pyro P ($13) from them, but bought over $140 worth of Powder and accessaries from the Mountain Man shop. And will be going back to them for more. Its nice to have a place I can buy a pound or two without Hazmat fees, I intend to support their business when I can.

I just got my new case of Goex which I make a mixture ofGoex 2f, 3f, Swiss 2f, 3f and this time I got some KIK 3f just to experiment with it. Of course I had to get my usualy pound of Pinnacle 3f. My other powders should be here next week. So then all the testing can really get into full swing.
I have often wondered how blending different granulations of black powderwould work. I am looking forward tothe reports of your testing.

Happy Hunting, Phil

Pglasgow is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 05:13 PM
  #9  
Dominant Buck
 
cayugad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en

ORIGINAL: cayugad

I just got my new case of Goex which I make a mixture ofGoex 2f, 3f, Swiss 2f, 3f and this time I got some KIK 3f just to experiment with it. Of course I had to get my usualy pound of Pinnacle 3f. My other powders should be here next week. So then all the testing can really get into full swing.
You bought a mixed case of 25 & now you have even more coming? I thought I shot alot -going thru3 jugsper year. Sounds like you go through one jug per month.

Such is the life of a retiree with a shooting range in his back yard. I dream of those days in my future.

[hr]


One jug a month.. you jest of course. Closer to two jugsa week. At least one pound will bite the dust for sure. I shoot on average five days a week or moreand about 20 to 40 shots per session depending on the weather and my bullet supply. This has been know to stretch to over 21 days in a row without taking a day off from shooting.

I usually start shooting about 11:00 in the morning and end about 2:30 PM after that is is clean the rifles, drink coffeeand refect on the day. Being retired does have its perks. I just ordered over 1000 conical bullets which should hold me for a while... Now I found some others that I want to get as well.

I hope your future dream of living with your own range come true. Think of all the fun you could have and the stuff you would learn with your own range.
cayugad is offline  
Old 07-09-2006, 05:28 PM
  #10  
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Default RE: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.

Original:cayugad

One jug a month.. you jest of course. Closer to two jugsa week. At least one pound will bite the dust for sure. I shoot on average five days a week or moreand about 20 to 40 shots per session depending on the weather and my bullet supply. This has been know to stretch to over 21 days in a row without taking a day off from shooting.
cayugad,

You must get a chrony! With all the shooting you do, just think of the data that could be collected! I got mine with Cabela's points whileusing a 20% off coupon they sent me. If you don't have a Cabela's card, considering getting one, through the years it has bought me several hundred dollars worth of goodies to include my SS Sidekick.

Happy Hunting, Phil
Pglasgow is offline  

Quick Reply: Mystery to remain a mystery a little while longer.


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.