c-rad

No disrespect to how everybody hunts but whats makes a good hunter is adapting to the environment they are given. Shooting 700yds is ok if you can see that far. Trying to get across a clover field 700yds to get a shot with a bow and not get spotted it a whole different challenge and skill. If I would of stuck to the way I learned to hunt in the northeast and south my success rate in Colorado where I hunt would have been 25%. I killed 3 elk in 4 years. Learning how to glass and call/stalk made me successful. I also use the heck out of trail cams to pattern animals. Elk have a lot bigger range than a white tail but you can still get a idea how they travel. So using technology, your weapon and your skills is all hunting. What works for one person in their area might not work for others. If you stick to one way you will never be successful everywhere.

Muley Hunter

I have to disagree, because I have personal experience with doing what you say won't work.

I was born, and brought up in Mass. While everybody used tree stands. I was taught to still hunt. I've continued to use that method all my life, and have been very successful. Glassing and long shots is not the only way to hunt elk in Colorado. They use timber to hide, and bed down. You just need to learn how to find them, and get close without being seen, smelled, or heard. It's not for everybody, but I enjoy it.

Ridge Runner

but...muley if I'm not mistaken you can hunt every day, if you could hunt elk 4 days a year how would your success run? an elk hunt for me would be at the most 1 week, after I used a weeks vacation, bought all the license and tags required, would you look down on me if I shot an elk at 500 yards? not because I'm not a hunter, but because I'm out of my element and am doing the best I can do to be successful?
RR
RR

c-rad

I never killed an elk or deer in Colorado over 60 yrds or with a rifle. I hunt with a muzzleloader. I like hunting in sept here. I do have a spot here where I used a tree stand. Helps me see. My trail cams helped me out finding that spot. I killed out of that tree stand in Colorado. This year my binos and calls helped me kill an elk. No I didn't kill the one I wanted but you can't eat horns so I was happy. My 30 yard kill at a cow was better than the shot that most people would have attempted at a 6x7 bull though think brush.

Bob H in NH

The same exact argument happens in the bowhunting world, except "long" is more like 50 yards. So if one argues that the bowhunter who takes the 50-60 yard shot is not a hunter but an archer, then why is the rifle hunter at 50-60 yards a "hunter" but the rifle guy at 500+ is a shooter?

It's all relative. It comes down to two things:

1) The goal of hunting: simple, hunters kill animals to eat.
2) Your personal goal of hunting. Insert your favorite motivation here.

There are some lines, but they move. For example RR is a "hunter" with his really LONG shots. Shooting is a skill in hunting, he's honed it to an extreme. Stalking as MH does is a hunting skill that he's honed. Both in my mind are hunters.

I used to go to PA to bowhunt. Lots of hunting camps there. The B&B owner that we stayed with told us about the crew at one of the hunting camps. has a GREAT farmers porch that looks across the valley over his B&B to the hillside behind. The camp is owned by a group of ex military snipers who are now to old to run around the mountains. They get deer every year from sitting on the porch. guns setup, scoping the hill side 600+ yards away. Spot a deer, shoot the deer, send grandchildren up to get the deer. This is how their "hunting" evolved as they aged.

I also talked to an elk outfitter at a show. He had his success chart up on the wall that had one HUGE anomoly of spiking up to 80%+. I asked him about it. He was honest, it wasn't normal. Had a group of ex snipers in camp. 8 of them that year. They were 100%. Hunters told them coming in, if you can spot us an elk, we can kill it. They did.

Muley Hunter

First off let me say I don't look down on anybody. Especially, hunters. Even if I don't agree with what someone does. I don't look down on the person. Who am I to look down on anybody?

All hunting takes some skills. Even if you take a brand new hunter, and put him in a tree stand. He still needs some skills to kill an animal. The more you hunt. The more skills you develop. It's all good.

Yes, I can hunt everyday now, but let me give you some history if it won't bore you to death. As i've mentioned I was born, and brought up in Mass. My dad was an avid hunter. He saw I had an interest in it, and started to teach me at a very young age. He had one method to hunt, and it was still hunting. He felt it was the most exciting way to hunt, and the most fair to the animal. Fair to the animal was driven into to me. We put ourselves on the ground with no scents, no calls, and no scopes. We wanted to beat the animals on their terms with all their sense working. As a youngster I was like every other kid. I just wanted to get a kill. Over time his way sunk in, and I began to think like him. As a human with a gun. We have a huge advantage over the animal. My dad felt we shouldn't have any other advantages. I feel the same way now.
When I was still young we started off to move to California. When we went though the Colorado Rockies I was jumping up and down to move there instead of California. I could see my dad was thinking the same thing, but didn't say anything. My mom was dead set on CA. Later my dad pulled me aside, and told me he promised we would go to Colorado every year to hunt. That satisfied me. He kept his promise, and we came to Colorado every year to hunt for elk. We hunted for deer in Ca., and sometimes in Co, but mostly we hunted for elk in Co. In all the hunting we did together, no matter where it was. Our method of hunting never changed. It was a learning process for both of us, but no matter where we were, or what we hunted for. We got still hunting to work. My dad was the best hunter i've ever known, and I couldn't have had a better mentor. He passed away in 86, and i've hunted alone since then. I moved to Colorado, and I hunt in his honor, with his method of hunting, and his teaching of being as fair to the animal as possible. It's ingrained in me now, and I couldn't do it any other way now. If I seem too opinionated I apologize, but I can't help myself. It's who I am now.

streetglideok

Interesting bio there Muley, thanks for sharing that. Every hunter with time under his belt has learned their own way to hunt, that is heavily dictated on where they hunt. In Wisconsin, we have a mix of hardwoods and nasty blackberry bushes in them, and hay and corn fields. Sometimes you get a shot in the woods, and you really don't need a big gun for that. Other times you're only able to see the boogers when they are in the fields, and you need a scoped gun with enough oomph to get the job done at 200-300 yards. Usually the season starts out hunting in stands, as there is enough pressure to move deer. Then you resort to still hunting, then eventually you get the people who are as desperate as you and drive the woods out. The best guys get the fields, the young people(usually gunless in orange) and bad shooters get to crawl thru the nasty stuff to push the deer out. I'm lazy and smart, I made sure to have an adequate gun and skill and stood point. That's just how they did it there right or wrong. Most of my filled tags came from still hunting actually, except for a deer drive that landed a head shot on a doe. I don't seek long range shots, I let them find me which really isn't often and not all that far. One small herd of elk that came across me(nearly ran me over) was an encounter of 25yards or so. They ran up on me from behind, not giving me a chance to get a shot at them. None of the other guys with me got that lucky. They also stayed closer to camp. I differ from some, in that I don't totally dismiss long range shots. Sometimes they are warranted, and are fine with a good shooter. Other times they are not appropriate.

Bullcamp82834

This damn thread needs to be shut down.
I was watching some deer in a hay field today at about 440 yards (according to Nikon) and a really nice buck muley appeared out of the creek bottom.
There was just no way to get closer and there was a cross wind blowing from the north that must have started up in Montana and gained speed the whole way here.

I passed on the shot. Not that it was beyond my ability but because I plotted to be in the brush above that creek early the next day and maybe ambush that sucker at under 100 if he came back again to feed.

I thought about this thread when I was making my plan. LOL

Muley Hunter

If I had a dollar for every shot i've passed up in my life. I could buy a new Jeep.

Ridge Runner

same but I'd opt for a new dodge dually
RR