6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester: A Battle of Ballistic Coefficients
06-28-2021, 02:46 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,689
I guess I should own up on calling 6.5 CM one of the newest calibers designed for long range shooting. I did not realize that the 6.5CM came out in 2007. That is a long time ago. I don't read gun mags every month but do read them occasionally or whenever a buddy talks about some new caliber or there's an article about something to do with a game species that I hunt. In looking through your above list of calibers, I can see that the gun mags ignore several of those 6mm's and most of the Nosler cartridges. Comparing a cartridge to the 308 gives a baseline of performance for many of us. That doesn't mean half of any article should be about a .308 but I can see where listing it in a title is going to draw more attention.
My interest in long range shooting is about calibers and cartridges used, what makes them more competitive and why. It's fun to learn new stuff and see what direction competitions are moving a class of rifles and cartridges. I don't know that any of the new cartridges are going to make a difference for me in hunting or plinking but it's interesting still to see what people are using to remain competitive at longer ranges.
My interest in long range shooting is about calibers and cartridges used, what makes them more competitive and why. It's fun to learn new stuff and see what direction competitions are moving a class of rifles and cartridges. I don't know that any of the new cartridges are going to make a difference for me in hunting or plinking but it's interesting still to see what people are using to remain competitive at longer ranges.
07-04-2021, 03:41 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,413
Originally Posted by elkman30
I guess I should own up on calling 6.5 CM one of the newest calibers designed for long range shooting. I did not realize that the 6.5CM came out in 2007. That is a long time ago. I don't read gun mags every month but do read them occasionally or whenever a buddy talks about some new caliber or there's an article about something to do with a game species that I hunt. In looking through your above list of calibers, I can see that the gun mags ignore several of those 6mm's and most of the Nosler cartridges. Comparing a cartridge to the 308 gives a baseline of performance for many of us. That doesn't mean half of any article should be about a .308 but I can see where listing it in a title is going to draw more attention.
My interest in long range shooting is about calibers and cartridges used, what makes them more competitive and why. It's fun to learn new stuff and see what direction competitions are moving a class of rifles and cartridges. I don't know that any of the new cartridges are going to make a difference for me in hunting or plinking but it's interesting still to see what people are using to remain competitive at longer ranges.
My interest in long range shooting is about calibers and cartridges used, what makes them more competitive and why. It's fun to learn new stuff and see what direction competitions are moving a class of rifles and cartridges. I don't know that any of the new cartridges are going to make a difference for me in hunting or plinking but it's interesting still to see what people are using to remain competitive at longer ranges.
07-06-2021, 03:50 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,227
There is NOTHING the 6.5 Creed will do that my 6.5x55 Swedish won't do. Since I handload I can easily best the Creed's ballistics and velocity. There has been a lot of hype about the Creed but when you get right down to it a number of 6.5mm cartridges already exist that are just as good or even better: 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68, 260 Rem, 6.5 Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag etc...
The Creed filled a niche that really didn't exist in the first place. But hey if you want it, go for it. Since I have the aforementioned 6.5x55 as well as a 6.5x54MS I don't see the need for one.
The Creed filled a niche that really didn't exist in the first place. But hey if you want it, go for it. Since I have the aforementioned 6.5x55 as well as a 6.5x54MS I don't see the need for one.
07-06-2021, 04:08 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,872
This is the same silly stuff which always comes up in any discussion about the 6.5 creedmoor, and frankly, it’s nothing more than that. Sure there’s plenty of stuff the 6.5 creed will do the x55 won’t...
When loaded to their maximum pressures, the 6.5 Creedmoor uses less powder, recoils less, and offers longer barrel life than the 6.5x55 Swede, and fits into a lighter rifle. When loaded to equivalent velocity, the Creedmoor uses less powder to get there, and still fits into a lighter rifle - and frankly, is considerably easier to develop loads for.
Speed isn’t the only measure of cartridge performance. Guys were using any and all of the old cartridges on the market for competition before the 6.5 creed came about. Then some shooters asked for improvements in specific directions, which all pointed to a shortened case, fatter, with a steeper shoulder and achieving a minimum performance standard.
It’s talking out of both sides of your mouth to say a Swede has any value which isn’t also bestowed upon the Creed. Twins cannot have disparate value - such is the nature of being twins. If you don’t need one or want one, don’t buy one. I don’t have a need for a 6.5 creed, so I don’t have one. But it’s silly to pretend it doesn’t deserve a spot at the table beside its ballistic twins, just because you have an older analogy and don’t need another.
When loaded to their maximum pressures, the 6.5 Creedmoor uses less powder, recoils less, and offers longer barrel life than the 6.5x55 Swede, and fits into a lighter rifle. When loaded to equivalent velocity, the Creedmoor uses less powder to get there, and still fits into a lighter rifle - and frankly, is considerably easier to develop loads for.
Speed isn’t the only measure of cartridge performance. Guys were using any and all of the old cartridges on the market for competition before the 6.5 creed came about. Then some shooters asked for improvements in specific directions, which all pointed to a shortened case, fatter, with a steeper shoulder and achieving a minimum performance standard.
It’s talking out of both sides of your mouth to say a Swede has any value which isn’t also bestowed upon the Creed. Twins cannot have disparate value - such is the nature of being twins. If you don’t need one or want one, don’t buy one. I don’t have a need for a 6.5 creed, so I don’t have one. But it’s silly to pretend it doesn’t deserve a spot at the table beside its ballistic twins, just because you have an older analogy and don’t need another.
Last edited by Nomercy448; 07-06-2021 at 04:13 PM.
07-06-2021, 06:01 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,227
Originally Posted by Nomercy448
This is the same silly stuff which always comes up in any discussion about the 6.5 creedmoor, and frankly, it’s nothing more than that. Sure there’s plenty of stuff the 6.5 creed will do the x55 won’t...
BS. Both will fire a 6.5mm bullet at the same velocity and both will have the same downrange performance.
When loaded to their maximum pressures, the 6.5 Creedmoor uses less powder, recoils less, and offers longer barrel life than the 6.5x55 Swede, and fits into a lighter rifle.
More BS. Nobody is going to shoot either one enough to wear out a barrel and my 6.5x55 Swede is less than 7 lbs with a scope.
When loaded to equivalent velocity, the Creedmoor uses less powder to get there, and still fits into a lighter rifle - and frankly, is considerably easier to develop loads for.
More BS. The difference in powder is miniscule and the Swede is no harder to develop a load for than the Creed.
Speed isn’t the only measure of cartridge performance. Guys were using any and all of the old cartridges on the market for competition before the 6.5 creed came about. Then some shooters asked for improvements in specific directions, which all pointed to a shortened case, fatter, with a steeper shoulder and achieving a minimum performance standard.
Speed is not what I am talking about. Did I mention speed? The 6.5x55 Swede has been handily killing big game all over the world for more than a century. Deer, elk moose etc... are no tougher now than they were before the Creed came around and that's my point. There is NOTHING the Creed can do that my Swede will not do.
It’s talking out of both sides of your mouth to say a Swede has any value which isn’t also bestowed upon the Creed. Twins cannot have disparate value - such is the nature of being twins. If you don’t need one or want one, don’t buy one. I don’t have a need for a 6.5 creed, so I don’t have one. But it’s silly to pretend it doesn’t deserve a spot at the table beside its ballistic twins, just because you have an older analogy and don’t need another.
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. What I stated was that the Creed will do nothing that my Swede won't do and for that reason I see no reason to own one. I also noted several other cartridges that the same thing can be said for. The 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68, 260 Rem, 6.5 Rem Mag and the 264 Win Mag will all do what the Creed does. As a matter of fact the 260 Rem is virtually identical to the Creed and it was out on the market before the Creed.
BS. Both will fire a 6.5mm bullet at the same velocity and both will have the same downrange performance.
When loaded to their maximum pressures, the 6.5 Creedmoor uses less powder, recoils less, and offers longer barrel life than the 6.5x55 Swede, and fits into a lighter rifle.
More BS. Nobody is going to shoot either one enough to wear out a barrel and my 6.5x55 Swede is less than 7 lbs with a scope.
When loaded to equivalent velocity, the Creedmoor uses less powder to get there, and still fits into a lighter rifle - and frankly, is considerably easier to develop loads for.
More BS. The difference in powder is miniscule and the Swede is no harder to develop a load for than the Creed.
Speed isn’t the only measure of cartridge performance. Guys were using any and all of the old cartridges on the market for competition before the 6.5 creed came about. Then some shooters asked for improvements in specific directions, which all pointed to a shortened case, fatter, with a steeper shoulder and achieving a minimum performance standard.
Speed is not what I am talking about. Did I mention speed? The 6.5x55 Swede has been handily killing big game all over the world for more than a century. Deer, elk moose etc... are no tougher now than they were before the Creed came around and that's my point. There is NOTHING the Creed can do that my Swede will not do.
It’s talking out of both sides of your mouth to say a Swede has any value which isn’t also bestowed upon the Creed. Twins cannot have disparate value - such is the nature of being twins. If you don’t need one or want one, don’t buy one. I don’t have a need for a 6.5 creed, so I don’t have one. But it’s silly to pretend it doesn’t deserve a spot at the table beside its ballistic twins, just because you have an older analogy and don’t need another.
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. What I stated was that the Creed will do nothing that my Swede won't do and for that reason I see no reason to own one. I also noted several other cartridges that the same thing can be said for. The 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68, 260 Rem, 6.5 Rem Mag and the 264 Win Mag will all do what the Creed does. As a matter of fact the 260 Rem is virtually identical to the Creed and it was out on the market before the Creed.
07-06-2021, 07:18 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,872
Some of us shoot more than others. I burned out two barrels in 6.5 creed before passing the rifle on. I burn out a few barrels every year, and have since the late 1990’s. 2500 rounds of barrel life don’t go very far when you shoot 150-250 rounds per weekend two or three times per month, with practice between.
Again, guys can piss and moan all they want about how much they love cartridges which throw 140grn 6.5mm cartridges at 2700-2800fps, but it’s obvious how silly they really are when they point to ONE of the same and claim it worthless.
Either you’re standing up and saying they’re different, which just sounds foolish, or you’re standing up and saying they’re the same, and one is great but one is worthless... which sounds even more foolish...
Again, guys can piss and moan all they want about how much they love cartridges which throw 140grn 6.5mm cartridges at 2700-2800fps, but it’s obvious how silly they really are when they point to ONE of the same and claim it worthless.
Either you’re standing up and saying they’re different, which just sounds foolish, or you’re standing up and saying they’re the same, and one is great but one is worthless... which sounds even more foolish...
Last edited by Nomercy448; 07-06-2021 at 07:30 PM.
07-07-2021, 05:09 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,227
Originally Posted by Nomercy448
Some of us shoot more than others. I burned out two barrels in 6.5 creed before passing the rifle on. I burn out a few barrels every year, and have since the late 1990’s. 2500 rounds of barrel life don’t go very far when you shoot 150-250 rounds per weekend two or three times per month, with practice between.
Again, guys can piss and moan all they want about how much they love cartridges which throw 140grn 6.5mm cartridges at 2700-2800fps, but it’s obvious how silly they really are when they point to ONE of the same and claim it worthless.
Either you’re standing up and saying they’re different, which just sounds foolish, or you’re standing up and saying they’re the same, and one is great but one is worthless... which sounds even more foolish...
Again, guys can piss and moan all they want about how much they love cartridges which throw 140grn 6.5mm cartridges at 2700-2800fps, but it’s obvious how silly they really are when they point to ONE of the same and claim it worthless.
Either you’re standing up and saying they’re different, which just sounds foolish, or you’re standing up and saying they’re the same, and one is great but one is worthless... which sounds even more foolish...
You buy off on the hype, but I dont. PERIOD
Below is the loading data from the Nosler site as a representation of what I am saying that shows the data for 140 gr loads for the 6.5 Creed, the 6.5x55 Swedish and the 260 Rem. If you don't like Nosler then look up some other brand. Using the exact same bullets there simply IS NOT any significant difference in down range performance.
Based on the data why is the 6.5 Creed magically superior to the other rounds and what will it do that the others wont? And do you really want to try and claim that a rifle in 6.5 Creed can be made lighter and easier to carry than a rifle in 260 Rem? Both are short action (the Swede isn't) and both can be put into identical rifles with identical weights. Tell me exactly what special niche exists between the 260 Rem and the 6.5 Creed that only the 6.5 Creed can fill?
Last edited by flags; 07-07-2021 at 07:24 AM.
07-07-2021, 08:37 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,872
Does a special niche have to exist for the F-150 to outsell the Silverado?
No.
More people want F-150’s than want Silverado’s, so more F-150’s are sold. More people want 6.5 creeds than 260 rems, so more Creeds are sold.
What about free market economy rankles you so terribly?
No.
More people want F-150’s than want Silverado’s, so more F-150’s are sold. More people want 6.5 creeds than 260 rems, so more Creeds are sold.
What about free market economy rankles you so terribly?
07-07-2021, 09:12 AM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,227
Originally Posted by Nomercy448
Does a special niche have to exist for the F-150 to outsell the Silverado?
No.
More people want F-150’s than want Silverado’s, so more F-150’s are sold. More people want 6.5 creeds than 260 rems, so more Creeds are sold.
What about free market economy rankles you so terribly?
No.
More people want F-150’s than want Silverado’s, so more F-150’s are sold. More people want 6.5 creeds than 260 rems, so more Creeds are sold.
What about free market economy rankles you so terribly?
I asked you a really simple question: What niche exists between the 6.5 Creed and the 260 rem that can only be filled by the Creed? The only honest answer (which you seem to be unable to give) is that there is NONE. The Creed was developed to sell rifles (see your analogy of half ton trucks above) and admittedly it does that very well, which I have already stated in a previous post. But, and this is a big but, it is not magic and only an idiot would try and say it is. If you want one and are in love with the hype, then by all means get one. Heck get a dozen for all I care and that sort of screws up your really dumb comment about free market economy doesn't it? Fools and their $$$ are often easily separated, but the real bottom line is anybody that owns a 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68, 260 Rem, 6,5 Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag etc..., as I do, will gain ABSOLUTELY NOTHING by buying a 6.5 Creed. PERIOD.
You really seem to have your panties in a twist because physics do not support the hype. Deal with it, there is no magic in the Creed, simply a lot of marketing hype to separate consumers from their $$$. Intelligent consumers see through it. Dumb consumers buy into it.
07-07-2021, 11:25 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,872
You came into a thread to piss and moan about something new because you’re insecure about your Swede. Your dissenting comments certainly seem jaded against the creed - if it does nothing your swede doesn’t do, then by default, it does everything your Swede does, which you’ve touted as a favorable cartridge... you can’t defend your own disdain for the Creedmoor...
Reading must be difficult for you as well as remembering your own claims. You pointed out that the Creed doesn’t do anything the Swede cannot, so I pointed out a handful of things it does. So now you’ve attempted to move the goalpost and replace the Swede with the 260... lame attempt, and quite juvenile for someone of your age...
You don’t have any argument to defend your position, other than “new is bad”...
The 308 didn’t do anything the 30-06 wasn’t already doing, nor the .30-06 anything the .30-03 wasn’t doing, the 300win Mag, 300 wsm, 300 Savage, 300 H&H, etc etc etc... The 7-08 didn’t do anything the 7x57 wasn’t doing, but we have 7RM, 280, 7wsm, 284win.... The 6.5 creed was just another 6.5mm cartridge, and everything good you can say about the Swede or the 260 is true about the 6.5 creed as well. But you just don’t like it, because it’s selling well... lame AF...
Reading must be difficult for you as well as remembering your own claims. You pointed out that the Creed doesn’t do anything the Swede cannot, so I pointed out a handful of things it does. So now you’ve attempted to move the goalpost and replace the Swede with the 260... lame attempt, and quite juvenile for someone of your age...
You don’t have any argument to defend your position, other than “new is bad”...
The 308 didn’t do anything the 30-06 wasn’t already doing, nor the .30-06 anything the .30-03 wasn’t doing, the 300win Mag, 300 wsm, 300 Savage, 300 H&H, etc etc etc... The 7-08 didn’t do anything the 7x57 wasn’t doing, but we have 7RM, 280, 7wsm, 284win.... The 6.5 creed was just another 6.5mm cartridge, and everything good you can say about the Swede or the 260 is true about the 6.5 creed as well. But you just don’t like it, because it’s selling well... lame AF...
Last edited by Nomercy448; 07-07-2021 at 11:28 AM.
