Yes,I've seen habitat work get stepped up since the last increase.In fact,I know a couple guys that work on the food and cover crews that got hired right after the last increase.

I live right on the edge of the elk region.WhileI have my own opinions on that whole project,anything they do to benefit the elk,also benefits the deer.Therefore,I really don't see any reason to complain about those habitat improvements.

They are doing small cuts in succession around here.They rotate the cuts every ten years.I drive through SGL 77 several times a week.Most days I can see a handful of deer out feeding in a couple of these cuts that you can see from the road.I also see turkeys on a regular basis.The game lands in Clearfield,Elk and Jefferson counties are managed way better than the vast majority of private land in this part of the state.I have way more confidence heading out to hunt deer in two of the SGL's that are within 5 miles of my house than I do most of the private land where I have permission to hunt.

No agency is perfect but I really don't understand what everyone is complaining about.They do a great job with the habitat on their limited resources and on the limited ground that they control.Yes deer numbers are down but we had way too many deer for way too long.If anyone doesn't believe that,The PGC is having a habitat tour on their gamelands on june 17 in Elk county.The studies and evidence they have is indisputable.I challenge anyone to attend andprove them wrong.Too many hunters want to blame the PGC and the antlerless allocations for lower deer numbers.Unfortunately,most dismiss the role that the habitat and reduced fawn recruitment has on deer numbers.

Forget about all the nonsense Gary Alt spewedwhen he was in charge.Forget about his ridiculous claims about the herd not being reduced and the state having more and bigger bucks.All that's in the past and the new deer manager recognizedand admitted that the herd was greatly reduced in many areas.They responded to that situation and greatly slashed the allocations two years in a row where the biggest herd reductions occured.What exactly is the problem and what does anyone expect them to do?

"Forget about all the nonsense Gary Alt spewedwhen he was in charge.Forget about his ridiculous claims about the herd not being reduced and the state having more and bigger bucks.All that's in the past and the new deer manager recognizedand admitted that the herd was greatly reduced in many areas.They responded to that situation and greatly slashed the allocations two years in a row where the biggest herd reductions occured.What exactly is the problem and what does anyone expect them to do?"

Forget about all the nonsense that Gary Alt spewed? Are you kidding? He decimated the herd in several counties that may take a generation to replenish! Now Rosenberry comes to his senses and admits the plan sucked. Why didn't Rosenberry speak up several years ago when he knew the Alt plan was wrong? Grund left because he knew the plan would fail.

Let's get real, the management that allowed Alt to run wild and unsupervised is the very same management we have today. Nothing in the upstairs offices of the PGC at Elmerton Avenue has changed. Will Rosenberry have anyone overseeing his operation? Will DuBrock be looking over Rosenberry's shoulder like he should have done, but did notwith Alt?

In any major corporation a FUBAR of this magnitude would render several executives seekingnew employment. With the PGC, it's business as usual.

Also, a few cuts does not constitute adherence to the Grouse Report and the program that proved successful in doubling the grouse numbers within that study area.

I understand that Merlin Benner went orgasmic a week back when he spotted 5 Pink Ladyslippers in the Tioga State Forest. These days, a hunter would go orgasmic if he spotted 5 deer in that area.

Anybody run into any feather peepers or flower sniffers while turkey hunting this spring?

While I pretty much despise Gary Alt however,he didn't decimate the herd.The biggest hit came to the herd after the winters of 2003 and 2004.We had heavy snowcover for most of these winters and no mast crop.The snow was past my thighs from the beginning of Feb and well into march and it had a heavy crust of ice.I foundwinter-killed deer all over the place that spring.Dave jackson from PSU was with me when we found five in one small area.Deer died from malnutrition those years and more importantly,recruitment suffered greatly.That was a direct result of poor habitat conditions not hunter's bullets.Anyone that discounts the decreased recruitment from those winters has their head in the sand.I know a guy that raises deer and he loses up to 60% of his fawns when we just have a cold wet spring.Factor in malnutrition and you have a population crash that's noticed over the next couple of years.

I live in an area that's mostly public land and where we got the bulk of antlerless allocations.People are crying about no deer in these parts as loud as any other place in the state.There's an outfitter up here that says he had 200 hunters in over the past two seasons and they only killed two bucks.That's mathematically impossible unless all 200 hunters were blind or they left their rifles at home.The lack of deer around here is an exageration except for areas where the habitat is poor.I hunted in Sinnemahoning this year on the last day of rifle.Several people that have camps up that way told me not to waste my time because there were no deer.I saw twenty by 10:00 am.It's public land so i'd be willing to give anyone directions.It's a long steep climb but the deer are there.

I just fail to see this decimation of the herd or understand all the hate toward the PGC.I hunt from southern 2G all the way up to Cameron county and see deer on a regular basis.I also hunt parts of 2f with the same results.I have family and friends that own property in 3b and 3c.If you can't find a deer up there,you need to take up golf.I am seeimg less deer than I used to but I'm also seeing positive signs that the habitat is starting to respond.I'll take a smaller herd anyday over a larger one being forced to survive on beech and striped maple.It may take a little more effort but it feels better tying a tag on a deer that I actually had to work for.I definately don't feel the need tocomplain to one of the misguided state reps about it.

Doug. Nice try. But most will never be convinced. This issue is a dead horse.

Isn't that what deer hunters and deer huntingshould be??

I have to disagree with you about how the hunting will be this year.The worst year I ever had as far as deer sightings go was in 2004.At the time I was actually alarmed at how few deer I saw and how little sign was out there.However,things change quickly.We had a very mild winter last year and fawn recruitment went up.I saw a fair amount of deer last year and most were not in inaccessible areas.What I did notice was a huge decrease in pressure.I never saw a single guy out in the woods during archery seasonand only two during the two daysI hunted in rifle season(1st and last saturday)I hunted in 3c on the first day but most people that hunted 2G said the weather was terrible.That saved alot of deer along with the huge reduction in tags.That reduction in doe tags probably contributed to the decrease in pressure.I spent an enormous amount of time in the woods after the season andI saw more deer and sign than I have in a few years.Couple that with this years mild winter and excellent mast crop and we'll see another good year for fawn recruitment.I look forward toa much better season this year.

I live in the southern part of 2G and the access is not bad at all on the public land.We don't have the huge steep ridges like they do up north.On top of that,it's hard to get more than a mile off the road because of all the state forest roads that criss cross through the area.

I realize that I have an advantage because I live hear and I have the time to scout.However,there are alot of good places to hunt on public land within a short drive from here.I'm in my office right now typing and I'm about 200 yards from SGL 77 on the edge of Dubois.A buddy of mine counted over 40 deer in one group coming out of these game lands about a month ago right next to I80.The deer are here and you don't have to travel to find them.All you need to do is think like a deer and scout where they should be.Look for food and cover and you'll find deer.Sit in the middle of open woods where you can see 300 yards and you'll probably say the PGC shot all the deer off.

A couple years ago I hated the way Alt was selling this plan.I still think he's a putz.However,changes have been made and I can see them making a difference with my own eyes.We bottomed out two years ago and things are heading back the other way.I hope they don't head too far in the other direction because I don't want to see any positive gainswith the habitat lost.I think things are pretty good right now and I think it's a good time to stabilize the population for a few years and assess the habitat situation.

Ipaid money to hunton some private property in ohio last archery season.I had a good time and killed a buck and a doe but I saw more deer on public land in 2G than I did in the4 days I was in Ohio.

This thread is getting interesting. A couple of points: Alt may not have destroyed the herd, but he sure destroyed the PGC's credibility and the hunting experienceof a significant amount of hunters (and the legislators that represent them) and that has consequences.Did anyone ever hear Rosenberry stand up and contradict Alt when he was working for him? Rosenberry cannot be given the benefit of the doubt -- and there's plenty of doubt.
I would say the same thing for Carl Roe who replaced Vern Ross. If they had a will to go to honest scientific management rather that just an appearance of it, if they had a will to cater to their payinglicence buyersrather than all the other "stakeholders," they would have gone outside the agency to replace Alt and Ross.
Didn't happen though -- draw your own conclusions!

ps Alt was correct when he talked about "Alpha hunters." They are there, but they are not typical nor are there enough of them to $upport the operations of the PGC.

pps In all of this we have to always remember who has the power keep or fire Game Commissioners and who therefore is ultimately responsible for the successes and/or failures of this agency -- the Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the Honorable G. Edward Rendell.

doug, the reason for decline in grouse is many reasons . 1 is a lot more hunters with dogs now hunting grouse. back when we had lots of grouse, there was very few grouse dogs.most of hunters hunted from their cars ,road hunting. thats how grouse was hunted then.next, ton more predators. they are doing job on grouse peeps.you had bountys on the fox and raccoons i used to get 12 dollars a pelt for racoon.not anymore.hawks are here now in great numbers. 40 years ago i very seldom ever saw a hawk. now, lots of hawks.coyotes all over. PREDATORS.next, habitat is not great in most areas for grouse. if DCNR would cut down maples and let sun in, berries would grow. we just had some big fires here this month in pa. those areas will be great hunting for grouse in few years. why, berries will grow.FEED/COVER.last but not least. when grouse numbers declined over last 15 years this is when PGC should have done their job. they should have reduced the number of grouse harvestedor closed season so numbers would grow. or as i say for deer hunting. 1 deer and your done or 1 grouse and your done. sadly, its to bad we cant tell if grouse is male or female.if females were left go, grouse would improve.so, to sum it up. its , hunting ,low numbers,predators, habitat.lets all get our our politicians to get DCNR to cut down the maples and turn state into a hunting state not a tree for money state. its this simple, its trees or hunting. you WILL not have both if you expect hunting to get better.right now, dcnr tree group is winning and hunting may get a lot worst than it is now.

Let me know Sproul if you wanna know how you can tell if grouse are male or female, I'm currently reading a book on them lots of good info. Even though numbers are down, its about the only small game left besides squirrels!!!