Dwell Time
#21
Sorry zac but you got that completely backwards.
I pasted my response to this exact question from a while back.
Same thing would go for taking out the aorta coming off the top of the heart.
I pasted my response to this exact question from a while back.
Yes there are exceptions to every rule but an arrow or bullet through only the lungs will 99.9% of the time kill an animal quicker than a heart shot. Any surgeon will tell you the same thing.
There are many thousand times as many blood vessels in the lungs than there are in any other part of the body. When the lungs get sliced blood pressure instantly drops, blood vessels to other parts of the body constrict, and the heart beats faster and faster to make up for the loss in blood pressure. The faster the heart beats the faster blood is pumped out of the body and the faster the body and brain are deprived of oxygen and the quicker the animal passes out and dies.
If the heart has a hole through it it can not pump blood so the blood simply drains from the heart with the help of gravity rather than being pumped out under force.
Think of a single cylinder water pump. If the cylinder wall has a hole in it then it can not move water. It will simply slosh it around instead of pumping it out in one direction. Now put a hole in the hose attached to that pump and water goes spraying everywhere.
There are many thousand times as many blood vessels in the lungs than there are in any other part of the body. When the lungs get sliced blood pressure instantly drops, blood vessels to other parts of the body constrict, and the heart beats faster and faster to make up for the loss in blood pressure. The faster the heart beats the faster blood is pumped out of the body and the faster the body and brain are deprived of oxygen and the quicker the animal passes out and dies.
If the heart has a hole through it it can not pump blood so the blood simply drains from the heart with the help of gravity rather than being pumped out under force.
Think of a single cylinder water pump. If the cylinder wall has a hole in it then it can not move water. It will simply slosh it around instead of pumping it out in one direction. Now put a hole in the hose attached to that pump and water goes spraying everywhere.
#23
Found this:
DOUBLE LUNG VS A HEART SHOT
Picking a good, clean shot depends on your level of experience and proficiency. I asked Mike Roux an outdoor writer and Pro-staff member for Lohman Game Calls his thoughts on shot placement. By the way, Roux just happens to be the chief technologist of nuclear cardiology at Blessing Hospital in Quincy, Illinois. Roux always encourages hunters to aim for the lungs over a heart shot. He believes the benefits of a double lung shot are vastly improved when compared to a heart shot.
"From a physiological standpoint", Roux explains when there is trauma to the heart the body automatically responds by shutting itself down. This causes the blood in the body to move slower.
In other words, all the arteries, veins and major organs retain the blood they currently possess. When a deer is hit in the heart,
blood circulation decreases and less blood exits the body. Therefore, a heart shot deer may not bleed as much compared to a lung shot.
Conversely, Roux states: that, "on a double lung hit, the wound causes the heart to beat harder. This is mainly due to the loss of blood pressure. As the body tries to compensates for the loss of blood pressure to supply the brain with blood, the heart pumps harder. Whenever the heart beats faster, more blood is lost and a hunter has a better chance of finding the animal".
By no means do I suggest that a heart shot is not effective. The fact is, a heart shot is lethal. This is simply a good rule of thumb to remember whenever you are picking your shot. The lungs also provide a larger target area that gives hunters an easier shot as compared to the smaller sized heart. With this information in mind I asked Roux his opinions on the "waiting game" after a confirmed hit? Like most of us, he suggested waiting 30 minutes. Whenever hunters push deer, the type of shot and the amount of adrenalin within the animal determines how far a deer will run. The further away a deer runs often times lessens your chances of finding the animal.
DOUBLE LUNG VS A HEART SHOT
Picking a good, clean shot depends on your level of experience and proficiency. I asked Mike Roux an outdoor writer and Pro-staff member for Lohman Game Calls his thoughts on shot placement. By the way, Roux just happens to be the chief technologist of nuclear cardiology at Blessing Hospital in Quincy, Illinois. Roux always encourages hunters to aim for the lungs over a heart shot. He believes the benefits of a double lung shot are vastly improved when compared to a heart shot.
"From a physiological standpoint", Roux explains when there is trauma to the heart the body automatically responds by shutting itself down. This causes the blood in the body to move slower.
In other words, all the arteries, veins and major organs retain the blood they currently possess. When a deer is hit in the heart,
blood circulation decreases and less blood exits the body. Therefore, a heart shot deer may not bleed as much compared to a lung shot.
Conversely, Roux states: that, "on a double lung hit, the wound causes the heart to beat harder. This is mainly due to the loss of blood pressure. As the body tries to compensates for the loss of blood pressure to supply the brain with blood, the heart pumps harder. Whenever the heart beats faster, more blood is lost and a hunter has a better chance of finding the animal".
By no means do I suggest that a heart shot is not effective. The fact is, a heart shot is lethal. This is simply a good rule of thumb to remember whenever you are picking your shot. The lungs also provide a larger target area that gives hunters an easier shot as compared to the smaller sized heart. With this information in mind I asked Roux his opinions on the "waiting game" after a confirmed hit? Like most of us, he suggested waiting 30 minutes. Whenever hunters push deer, the type of shot and the amount of adrenalin within the animal determines how far a deer will run. The further away a deer runs often times lessens your chances of finding the animal.
#24
Sorry, to disagree again...
but NO,NO,NO..... Blood pressure is pressure within a closed system, once the system is opened due to trauma (aorta, carotid, or even lung shot, etc) the heart will attempt to increase arterial pressure by beating faster. This is only if the heart has the ability to function (ie lung shot). If the heart itself is destroyed, it cannot beat at all and BP will drop and the animal will lose consciousness and die. Presuming you get a double lung shot the BP drop will follow a different pattern. The lungs will begin to fill with blood as the heart will continue to beat, eventually as the lungs fill, BP will drop and (more than likely the animal will die of asphyxiation....not blood loss. The problem with this is that the heart is still able to function to capacity and pump far more blood that it could have with a heart shot. Sorry guys it’s a scientific fact. Double lung shot deer could hypothetically run 75-100 yds. (dead none the less) Heart shot deer maybe (big maybe) 25 yds. Take out a shoulder AND the heart and he won't even take a step.
Bigbulls, as much as I hate to disagree with you, your talking about VENIOUS pressure (i.e. un-oxygenated blood returning from the organs), not at all the same as the instant lose of OXYGENATED blood to the brain.
zrex, it has nothing to do with how much the animal bleeds....understand this, without a constant uninterrupted (FRESH) blood supply to the brain the animal will be brain dead in a matter of minutes and on the ground in seconds due to hypoxia. I'm not arguing that an animal might not bleed more from a double lung shot, what I will argue is that a clean heart shot will drop any animal faster than a double lung (all other factors aside). Your only valid claim with a lung shot is that it will certainly result in a dead deer and presents the hunter with a larger vital target and the increase in blood trail will make your animal easier to find. Just remember if you would have heart shot him you wouldn't be trailing anything.
but NO,NO,NO..... Blood pressure is pressure within a closed system, once the system is opened due to trauma (aorta, carotid, or even lung shot, etc) the heart will attempt to increase arterial pressure by beating faster. This is only if the heart has the ability to function (ie lung shot). If the heart itself is destroyed, it cannot beat at all and BP will drop and the animal will lose consciousness and die. Presuming you get a double lung shot the BP drop will follow a different pattern. The lungs will begin to fill with blood as the heart will continue to beat, eventually as the lungs fill, BP will drop and (more than likely the animal will die of asphyxiation....not blood loss. The problem with this is that the heart is still able to function to capacity and pump far more blood that it could have with a heart shot. Sorry guys it’s a scientific fact. Double lung shot deer could hypothetically run 75-100 yds. (dead none the less) Heart shot deer maybe (big maybe) 25 yds. Take out a shoulder AND the heart and he won't even take a step.Bigbulls, as much as I hate to disagree with you, your talking about VENIOUS pressure (i.e. un-oxygenated blood returning from the organs), not at all the same as the instant lose of OXYGENATED blood to the brain.
zrex, it has nothing to do with how much the animal bleeds....understand this, without a constant uninterrupted (FRESH) blood supply to the brain the animal will be brain dead in a matter of minutes and on the ground in seconds due to hypoxia. I'm not arguing that an animal might not bleed more from a double lung shot, what I will argue is that a clean heart shot will drop any animal faster than a double lung (all other factors aside). Your only valid claim with a lung shot is that it will certainly result in a dead deer and presents the hunter with a larger vital target and the increase in blood trail will make your animal easier to find. Just remember if you would have heart shot him you wouldn't be trailing anything.
#25
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,290
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From:
A heart shot human can run 50 yards if they have the will too. Or, they can dedicate those last moments to perpetration if they choose to. God have mercy on the soul.
(Bad night on Okinawa.)
(Bad night on Okinawa.)
#26
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Ironwood, Michigan
I would have to agree with Zac. A shot which takes out the top of the heart or the aorta is the best. One is damaging the muscles the animal runs on and the pump. This is a great shot if one is using the proper (re: not a varmint weight bullet in a small caliber) bullet. If one takes out the central nervous system, one has instant death, but the targets are small and difficult to hit. The heart shot takes out the lungs from most angles and causes loss of consciousness in a matter of seconds. Lung shots can hit either of the other systems by accident. Without striking large bones, the lung hit deer is going to go farther. I can talk about this because I have had graduate level classes in anatomy, physiology and pathology. While in school, the cardiac physiology professor was an avid hunter. His viewpoint was, lung hit for archery and heart shot for rifle. The reason being was one couldn't be as precise with an arrow. His view so the bow hunters need to hunt him down to argue with. He also liked using his 45/70 for deer with a large meplat. He view was kinetic energy didn't foretell the killing effect as well as a lagrge bullet blowing through and leaving a blood trail which looked as though it was laid by a bucket. We talked at length and I liked what he had to say. He hunted as often with a shotgun as a rifle. Blow out the heart, it causes hypoxia much quicker.
Dr Fatguy
Dr Fatguy
#27
Fork Horn
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
[
Dr Fatguy
[/quote]
I'd rather take the lung shot 'cause I've got other plans for the heart. Plans that involve mushrooms, onions, biscuits and a Dutch oven.
Dr Fatguy
[/quote]
Blow out the heart, it causes hypoxia much quicker.
#28
All this medical stuff is great, but animals (particularly whitetail deer and antelope) often put on a burst of speed when heart shot that carrys them a hundred yards or more. Pure andrenelin, no doubt.
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