well, not exactly what you said. You said, I only have one gun and I am defending it. Thats what I got out of it.

James what about the expansion of a .300 as opposed to the .45 non expanding solid core.
I've seen tests on my beloved .24 that had a .48 diameter after expansion with 90% bullet weight retention. I can only imagine what a .300 would measure probably around .600 diameter. Thats a big hole with a lot of umph.

There are a lots of factors that will affect terminal ballistics. To me as a hunter, terminal ballistics means geting the animal down humanely, in the shortest distance, and time! Some people may misconstrue this as "overkill!" But there are other reasons besides just a "humane kill," that dictate getting the game down fast!
So the three most important bullet factors are going to be weight, speed, and bullet type! With the right combinations, I think that the faster bullets will preform better! But I would rather have a 200 gr. bullet going 2600 FPS than an 80 gr. bullet going 6000 FPS, even if you could push one that fast! Both would be deadly! The first within 0-200 yards, the second in 0 yds. to miles!
Zee, as far as the blood pressure theory, I don't think that they could really tell any difference at all, from a lung shot, or heart shot! Blood pressure will be dropping instantly either way! And its not the blood pressure the brain needs anyway, its the O2! No flow, no pressure, no O2! Either shot is good, the lungs are a great target! Taking out the heart is just gravy!

Good points jag.
My exp. has been that the deer I have shot ,ran farther with heart shots than with lung shots. Which happens to coincide with that theory I read. Dont know if theres any truth to it or just coincidence.

Zee, it would be a very hard point to prove, one way or the other! Deer rarely drop with either shot. But, the good thing with either shot, is you usually get a great blood trail, that doesn't go very far!
All-in-all, I'd give the edge to bullet speed! It just has to be balanced with the right weight, and type of bullet!

There is really nio way to figure the expansion of a jacketed bullet because it is all dependent on where it hits. If it hits a big bone it could expand to the point where penetration would be lost. It could miss all the bones and expand very little. If all goes well they will expand as intended however again it would depend on what the make up of the bullet is. There are to many to know. The wide nose hard cast bullet is already as big as most expanded bullet are after expansion. At higher velocity some cast bullets will expand too but that would steer them off track and limit their penetration. This said most big cast bullet give plenty of penetration. Big cast bullets have been killing game animals very well for 150 years or more. Cast bullets are really a whole other world of their own. The completely flat nose and square edges also add tho their performance and add greatly to the permanent would channel. (Channel that doesn't seal up after the bullet passes through.

A great site- not necessarily on stopping power, but on terminal ballistics, well worth the read (and a fun read to boot) to draw your own conclusions

http://theboxotruth.com/

45-70 is a monster...lmao. I like that last quote....



Moral of this lesson: Don't get in any gun fights with buffalo hunters. There ain't no such thing as cover.


That sight should be about all the proof most folks need bout penetration..however Im sure theres one certain one in particular that will try to find a way to smother it with bs


They arent even using the hot 45-70 loads either...lol.

Sorry guys, but a heart shot will drop blood pressure MUCH quicker than a lung shot...

zrex, get your "medical facts" straight.... The heart can in fact beat after a heart shot, due to the properties of heart muscle tissue (autorythmicity) i.e. the ability to initiate its own contractions. However with the degree of tissue damage, even if the heart is still beating, any blood it pumps will not go to the arteries, but rather out into the chest cavity and the arteries will actually drain towards the heart. All this takes place in a matter of 15-20 seconds and unconsiousness due to lack of blood supply to the brain will will drop the dear almost instantly.

A lung shot will also drop BP, however at a much slower pace due to the ability of the heart to remain pumping blood to the brain.

Like I said, I have had deer run farther with heart shots. Dunno why ?
You say it can keep beating, but it can stop beating just as well, which would leave pressure in the lines, correct ? then it would take a minute or two for the brain to run out of oxygen, correct ?