Oh there it is the famous "tradition" argument

Since you brought it up, when did the tradtion of hunting start for you? Was it the Teddy Roosvelt era? or before teddy?

I view this conversation in the same manner that I view trying to convince an anti-hunter that hunting is a worth while endeavor.
It's Pointless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some folks will never see things other than the way they always have or the way they wish to.If someone isn't at least willing to see a different perspective than everyone's time is wasted.

I see no evidence whatsoever that leads me to believe the deer are any healthier then before.


Once again...........nothing to do with the health of the animals. Just "better" hunting. The bigger racks and bodies are nothing more then age related........no connection to improved nutrition at all.



Snakes.



Give me one good reason why I need to "open my mind" and work with them. "They" are the closed minded ones IMO. Why should I change my beliefs (which are well founded) based on the selfish wants of others?



Yes. It is no ones business but mine what I shoot.


That's not what I call learning.............more like convinced

hmm...i have had my arguments with Atlas before....but i am 100% in agreement with what he is saying....working for fish and game in CA...i have seen these things happen too many times...politicians or people with money in their pockets have their own agendas and instead of looking at the truth and facts they look at "swayed statistics" to get what they want....

[blockquote]quote:

Just be honest............very simple. Don't someone in the eye and tell them you want a "healthier herd" when they know all you REALLY want are more big racked bucks to shoot.

[/blockquote]


I want both. I really do. If they work hand in hand....so be it.....but should I apologize for the latter because it's a by-product of the former?

I'm trying to understand the flaw in this mindset. ????????????????????????

This is where you lack vision

In 1994 if you ask the average hunter in the UP if their herd was healthy; they would have said yes. Now we now know it was way over populated. In 95-96 +350,000 deer dead. Man that sounds healthy[&:]

BTW Bigger deer = better health

My name is Germ and I like big bucks Now your turn
We all know the other group who rail again QDM who just want over populated deer herds so they can whack away

There is middle ground and I hope you find it. We have not in MI, but we're getting closer

And you call others selfish

Every year in NY there area good number of outstanding bucks taken - check the NY outdoors mag - every issuehas pics of great deer taken - factor in that only a small % of hunters get the mag the pics probably represent a small % of the nicer kills. All this WITHOUT AR/TM being mandatory.

For many/most, hunting is not a contest, tournament, playoff, game or championship where theysuccess ismeasured against other hunters. And I will never understand the need for, or the satisfaction recieved from comparing my kill to something on tv.

Wouldn't there be a greater sense of accomplishment to do it threw your own efforts entirely? You want a ride to the finish line?

I like the system in NY. If you want to hunt big antlers, they are they and more special because their numbers are not artificially inflated by mandatory TM practises. But if you are happy just hunting, seeing and maybe shooting a deer, you can. For the most part, our herd is "healthy" enough to support both hunting styles.

Steve

Is it OK to say I want less sightings.....a smaller, more healthy deer herd.......and I also want to shoot bigger bucks?

Would I trade one for the other? Nope. No reason to. They work hand-in-hand.

The browse line here, by mid Nov., is non-existent up to 6'. By sheer numbers alone.....they can't reach their full growth potential......and they can't expect the same habitat to support more deer. Something has to be done.

Bigger DEER will be a side-effect.....but it shouldn't (IMO) be something to apologize for.

Steve that is great, I can tell you MI is the same way right now. The main difference is our combo tag system. We can take 2 bucks with gun or bow. Anyway we choose. We do have a MARS on the second tag 4 points on one side

Here is my question

If NY put a MARS say 3 on a side for bucks how would that effect your hunting?

YES.

NOW I get it. Thanks.