Where did I say differently?? Dance around the obvious all you want.......TDM/QDM is about one thing and one thing only and everybody knows it...........that's what makes all the smokescreen/noble/lying to your face crap so hard to stomach.




TDM/QDM does not help hunting.........it hurts it.



The key difference that eludes you is all the above are designed to help the ANIMALS............TDM/QDM is designed to help the HUNTERS.


Amazing how your herd is healthy today even after decades of no management and/or poor management (including a massive die off)........But you're right, if you don't step in and interfere more now the future is hopeless.............they did fine for 100 years without your help Germ, but they need you now more then ever!!!

If you are still waiting for someone to prove an opinion then you might want to look up the word troglodyte again




There it is folks.........in bold type..........but TDM/QDM is not about bucks or antlers. What a mockery. Please don't ever speak in public and use this logic as a representation of hunters in general because this kind of thinking will drive or sport right into the ground.

What a sad statement.



Yes, I like bucks...........every hunter does. To say they are the sole driving force behind my actions and if they didn't exist I would simply wipe out the deer herd as a nuisance is vile at best.



The key to any speech is knowing your room

These deer were unable to obtain good feed, it has been over browsed for to long. Too many deer for to long!! Cut the herd down by killing some does!! Who said anything about feeding deer. Let their natural feed grow back.

Most hunters hunt for bucks, small or big. I said nothing of TDM or QDM. Fact matter if deer did not have antlers we would not be hunting them. My guess is there would not even be a season. It'sthe sad truth, I never said I agreed with it. Just way I see it. We almost wipe the whitetail out once before. What saved them were hunters, those hunters hunted bucks.

100 years of TDM(Traditional deer Management) led to what we had in the 90's. Our DNR has done a better job, and our hunters have also.

Nature does a great job, but as you said we have our hand in it now.

In bold I never said you did.

When I talk in public I talk about one thing. Habitat improvement, and i put my money where my mouth is. How much have you spent? Since you care so much. Lets see a figure, I have to go check my SunFlower plot the turkeys love them

You're right about that atlas, A truly, truly sad and self serving statement. A little hard to believe and I'm almost sure that Germ did not mean that, but he wrote it so...[8D]

That's why I think it is wrong to impose A/R at the state level.To subject everyone to the same measure of what is a "shootable" animal and what is not, is wrong across such a wide and demographically diverse geography.

However, I see nothing wrong with proposing A/R on your own property or "club property" as you see fit.

Whether QDM in many cases is mis-used or mis-interpreted, itis usually just a matter of what one considers a "healthy herd" and, in any event, will probably have little effect on maintaining a "sustainable herd" of deer, in general, on a given property.

So, while "QDM" may have someeffect on the demographics of a herd, and I would say, usually positive effects if you're looking for bigger racks, it is unlikely, imo,that it could actually hurt a population to the point whereit seems reasonable to rescind the "qdm" once implemented on a local level.

Hillbilly how many hunters would hunt whitetails if they did not have antlers? I would say in MI a pile of guys would not. I am not that is why I hunt or you or Atlas hunt. I am saying the driving force for most guys in the past have been bucks. Here is a test, take away buck tags in your state for a year. What do you think will happen?

No one complains when youcan not shoot does

That is some pretty quick backpeddling you are doing there bud.



Not that I blame you.

Yea.........that is a real head scratcher there..........I really thought I misread it at first.

Seems like the boys up in MI have a lot more to woory about then Nugent if this is the kind of message that is being spread around

Just about all of them that I know. What else are they gonna do? Sit around and crochet and watch the soccer game???

I would have to wonder about the character of those people then, and people anywhere that would give it up.
I think most real hunters would continue to hunt or would have to settle for a more boring life, imo.

Define "past". Most hunters in my grandfathers time shot bucks because that's all the law would allow. However, the hunted for the meat, tradition, comraderie, etc.

If you could still hunt does then legal hunters, I assume would go doe hunting. I know I would. I know also that if there were no "antlered deer" I would still go, although I may not buy as much stuff, concentrate as much, or work as hard, as I would rightfully assume, I didn't have to in order to succeed. Nevertheless, I would not spend less time in the woods, I hope. Just more time daydreaming probably


Don't think that's accurate.




If there were no deer where I live I'd hunt a lot more squirrels, so...

I think true hunterswouldn't quit. They'd just look for another reason to be "purposefully afield"

I, myself consider Elk hunting much more enjoyable than deer hunting, but since I live where I do, don't have a choice right now on where I spend my free time.


I agree though that "middle ground when it comes to qdm has to be found, just took issue with that one statement you made...no hard feelings though.

I think this statement is false also there Atlas, IMO.

But again I think this whole argument boils down to what SOOOOO many arguments on here boil down to. That is..."What is considered "hunting" to one person on here may not be to another" That's all..
You can't paint everything with one big brush and say "QDM is harmful". To some it is. To others it ain't. Just like high fences, baiting, chasing with dogs, and our most recent addition "head shots with a Bow".

No peddling I made statement what I think it deer hunting would be. I know with your limited vision(not thinking past yourself) it's hard to see.