Healthy herd myth
08-03-2007 | 08:23 PM
#111
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Healthy herd myth
ORIGINAL: atlasman
That would be fine with me................in fact no doe tags for a year or two would be OK as well.
The VAST majority of NY hunters do not kill 2 bucks a year though so I don't know that it's needed.
ORIGINAL: Germ
Atlas take a look at KY tag system I really like it. You get two tags 1 buck 1 doe. You can choose to shoot them anyway you wish. Gun or bow.
Would KY tag system be ok with you for NY ? If not why? I will explain why I like and why I suggested to the DNR and MUCC board after your response.
Atlas take a look at KY tag system I really like it. You get two tags 1 buck 1 doe. You can choose to shoot them anyway you wish. Gun or bow.
Would KY tag system be ok with you for NY ? If not why? I will explain why I like and why I suggested to the DNR and MUCC board after your response.
That would be fine with me................in fact no doe tags for a year or two would be OK as well.
The VAST majority of NY hunters do not kill 2 bucks a year though so I don't know that it's needed.
In MI I call the first tag a "mullengan" tag. About 35,000 bucks were taken with our second tag last year. You can use that with bow or gun.
08-03-2007 | 08:26 PM
#113
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Healthy herd myth
Charlie I can not wait to take hillary with me.
I run a youth hunt on our farm for kids every year. They shoot what they want and I have a blast sitting with them.
There is middle ground for us all, and we need to find it.
I run a youth hunt on our farm for kids every year. They shoot what they want and I have a blast sitting with them.
There is middle ground for us all, and we need to find it.
08-03-2007 | 08:29 PM
#114
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,668
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From: NY
RE: Healthy herd myth
ORIGINAL: rybohunter
when you kill most of your bucks at 1.5 years, you have NO idea which ones are bigger and stronger yet. Give them a few years to mature and sort things out and the dominant ones do the breeding.
when you kill most of your bucks at 1.5 years, you have NO idea which ones are bigger and stronger yet. Give them a few years to mature and sort things out and the dominant ones do the breeding.
I always wondered why rack chasers cringed when they see a young buck killed..................common sense would say they should feel joy and relief because that means the big boy they are chasing is still out there. If you are fishing for the only 5 lb bass in the pond why should you care about the guys pulling out the 2 lb ones?? Unless the challenge of finding that 1 fish is too hard and you want to make things easier on yourself
Everyone thinks that when you kill a big one it hasn't had a chance to pass on its line. It has had all those years it lived to do that.
08-03-2007 | 08:34 PM
#116
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: NY
RE: Healthy herd myth
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
the little bucks genes won't improve with age. Basically that little bucks genes could be better then the big bucks.
the little bucks genes won't improve with age. Basically that little bucks genes could be better then the big bucks.
I am willing to bet that less then 1% of hunters in general...........and maybe 5% of QDM guys at MOST even understand this point.
I seriously believe that people think a deer's genetics improve if they are allowed to grow into a monster buck.
Here's a hint folks..................his DNA was the same at age 1.5 as it will be at age 4.5
08-03-2007 | 08:36 PM
#117
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,541
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From: Phoenixville, PA USA
RE: Healthy herd myth
quote:
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy
Every year in NY there area good number of outstanding bucks taken - check the NY outdoors mag - every issuehas pics of great deer taken - factor in that only a small % of hunters get the mag the pics probably represent a small % of the nicer kills. All this WITHOUT AR/TM being mandatory.
[blockquote]quote:
Every tournament, playoff, game, or championship I have been involved with I have wanted to take home a trophy. [/blockquote]
For many/most, hunting is not a contest, tournament, playoff, game or championship where theysuccess ismeasured against other hunters. And I will never understand the need for, or the satisfaction recieved from comparing my kill to something on tv.
[blockquote]quote:
If the state is going to enact laws that help me do that I am all for it.[/blockquote]
Wouldn't there be a greater sense of accomplishment to do it threw your own efforts entirely? You want a ride to the finish line?
I like the system in NY. If you want to hunt big antlers, they are they and more special because their numbers are not artificially inflated by mandatory TM practises. But if you are happy just hunting, seeing and maybe shooting a deer, you can. For the most part, our herd is "healthy" enough to support both hunting styles.
Steve
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy
Every year in NY there area good number of outstanding bucks taken - check the NY outdoors mag - every issuehas pics of great deer taken - factor in that only a small % of hunters get the mag the pics probably represent a small % of the nicer kills. All this WITHOUT AR/TM being mandatory.
[blockquote]quote:
Every tournament, playoff, game, or championship I have been involved with I have wanted to take home a trophy. [/blockquote]
For many/most, hunting is not a contest, tournament, playoff, game or championship where theysuccess ismeasured against other hunters. And I will never understand the need for, or the satisfaction recieved from comparing my kill to something on tv.
[blockquote]quote:
If the state is going to enact laws that help me do that I am all for it.[/blockquote]
Wouldn't there be a greater sense of accomplishment to do it threw your own efforts entirely? You want a ride to the finish line?
I like the system in NY. If you want to hunt big antlers, they are they and more special because their numbers are not artificially inflated by mandatory TM practises. But if you are happy just hunting, seeing and maybe shooting a deer, you can. For the most part, our herd is "healthy" enough to support both hunting styles.
Steve
Anyway, my example of sports and work was more an illustration of my personal sense of always wanting to improve on past accomplishments, not necessarily competing against others. I feel that I don't hold a candle to some of the guys on here and wouldn't want to compete against them even if we were to exchange hunting grounds. Competition with others in hunting is not something I'm interested in, it is more personal for me. I also don't compare what I shoot to what I see on TV. If I did I'd have a serious kick to the ego.
As to your second question, you must not have hunted in PA. Just because there are more big bucks in this state does not mean they are any easier to kill. There are still 1 million hunters here putting pressure on the deer, and now that they get to live beyond 1.5 years they are cagey and learn to evade hunters. There is no free ride. It's just nice to know that instead of there being one 3.5 year old within 10 miles of where I hunt that there could be 10. They are still 3.5+ year old deer and have all of the craftiness of a deer that age.
No less of a challenge, just more opportunity to meet that challenge.
08-03-2007 | 08:36 PM
#118
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,682
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From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Healthy herd myth
Here is the thread to that post, Atlas was that you ripping into them
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94054
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94054
08-03-2007 | 08:38 PM
#119
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,668
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From: NY
RE: Healthy herd myth
ORIGINAL: HuntingBry
The thing that irritates me the most about Atlas' point is that we are made to feel like we need to justify our desire for a trophy.
The thing that irritates me the most about Atlas' point is that we are made to feel like we need to justify our desire for a trophy.
Every other aspect of society is predicated on "showing out." It is looked highly upon to have expensive cars, diamond watches, big houses, etc. Heck, the heroes of our society, professional athletes, are not put to shame when they hold out on a contract that they agreed to 2 years ago because they now want a few more million dollars. Why should we feel guilty about wanting to hunt bigger antlered deer?
WOW
08-03-2007 | 08:41 PM
#120
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,682
Likes: 0
From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Healthy herd myth
ORIGINAL: atlasman
I am willing to bet that less then 1% of hunters in general...........and maybe 5% of QDM guys at MOST even understand this point.
I seriously believe that people think a deer's genetics improve if they are allowed to grow into a monster buck.
Here's a hint folks..................his DNA was the same at age 1.5 as it will be at age 4.5
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
the little bucks genes won't improve with age. Basically that little bucks genes could be better then the big bucks.
the little bucks genes won't improve with age. Basically that little bucks genes could be better then the big bucks.
I am willing to bet that less then 1% of hunters in general...........and maybe 5% of QDM guys at MOST even understand this point.
I seriously believe that people think a deer's genetics improve if they are allowed to grow into a monster buck.
Here's a hint folks..................his DNA was the same at age 1.5 as it will be at age 4.5
Why not let him keep passing on those genes?? Why kill him in his prime? If he was declining already I would understand........but at his peak??
Talk about your contridictions[&:]