Agree with you there Hillybilly, Atlas I agree with you few things also. I just see things different, maybe it is the buck only culture we have here in MI. YOu have to se it to believe it. I think some PA guys can attest to this culture. Atlas I hope you guys find some middle ground. Just open your eyes a bit

To much of my time and energy has already been wasted on this futile topic.Seemingly a lot of intellectualizing has been going on to provide justification for killing 1.5 year old bucks.While I want to contribute more I know there is no good reason to.
My sincere sequence of priority is Habitat first,animal second,and hunter third.Now you go ahead and twist that around to any way you see fit,or however it serves you.That's how it is for me.Do I want to kill big bucks,yes I absolutely do and make no apologies for it,but not in a million years would I put that desire before thecondition of the habitat or the health of a herd.
Years ago I was listening to D!ck Henry who at the time was the head deer biologist for the DEC in my region of New York,he was addressing a gathering of hunters who were peppering him with questions about where all the big bucks are.I laughed my tail off when he gave this answer without skipping a beat,he said they are all home in your horn box.
Most of,not all,of the hunters who consistently kill 1.5 year old bucks want to kill bigger deer but they don't want to be the ones to pass on bucks they would routinely kill.There in lies the rub,the latter wont happen without the former.If you ever have the good fortune to kill a big old buck you can either thank the rut for having him wander in from an area you havn't shot out,or thank a selective buck hunter who passed on that animal in hopes of meeting it again someday in the future.
It is not my intention at all to alienate anyone or to come across as arrogant.If I have offended anyone I apologize!
I will never get drawn into a conversation of this nature again.At least not in this setting.

I wish you hadn't made that statement.............and I REALLY wish you weren't standing by it.

Because you have a small view

We(as a race) have not been to kind to certain animals in the past. Like shed33 said in his post would we even know? Who knows maybe hunting would be better without them.

Hogs don't have antlers and I hunt them. Does don't have antlers and I hunt them. Rabbit don't have antlers and I hunt them. Raccoons don't have antlers and I hunt them. Fox, bobcat, everything I hunt other than deer don't have antlers and I hunt them. Get my point?

Atlas and CharlieP are both making the same arguments that every old timer in PA has been making since they instituted ARs here.

"My rights to hunt the way I want are being infringed upon"

"I should be able to hunt however I want in the woods."

"If I want to shoot a little buck who are you to tell me I can't."

Guess what, boo hoo. The state institutes laws that it feels will make hunting better (and more profitable) for that state. That is why there are seasons, that is why you can't jacklight, that is why there are bag limits. They have woken up and smelled the dead carcasses of piles of 1.5 year old bucks and since most hunters cannot control themselves enough to stay off the trigger when a spiker walks by they are doing it for them. The state needs money from hunting, they realize they will make more of it if there are more and bigger bucks to hunt, so they instituted the laws to make this happen.

I've said it, I like hunting bucks that are bigger than those I've shot in the past. This makes it easier for me to find those bucks (note I said find, not hunt or kill, the challenge is still the same as before there).

If you feel that the state doing this infringes on your rights too bad. I'm done with this conversation and hearing how there is nothing wrong with shooting 1.5 year olds and stalking up on what amounts to a12 year old child is a great feat. Keep shooting what is legal and have fun doing it, I do not frown upon what you do. However, I refuse to try to justify what I want to do to you because you don't share the same interest.

Atlas, go ahead and pull whatever quotes out of here you want and use your emoticons to express yourself. I don't expect you to accept my point of view as your own, but I'd hope that you'd at least respect it.

I hunt alot of those animals to Chris H but have you ever found yourself getting racoon fever before the shot,or when a rabbit stepped into the field quietly to yourself did you say please lord please lord give me a shot at that big rabbit? There is nothing like therush and adrenilinan old big racked buck can produce. Some just never expierence it.

And some experience that same "adrenaline rush" when they see a scrub 3pt. Perhaps they are a newbie or perhaps they're someone who, for one reason or another, doesn't get to devote much time hunting, or perhaps they just have an uncontrollable enthusiasm for the opportunity to "hunt" at all.

Should they be denied the right to pull the trigger on something they deem worthy so someone else canPOSSIBLY have MORE opportunities to shoot something THEY DEEM WORTHY? It definately shouldnot be state mandated. At least not state wide. Perhaps some areas, but not all.

As I said, I am for "qdm" and "a/r" on a localized level, but I am not so selfish as to want toimpose on others what I think is the appropriate "antler size" to be"trigger worthy" across the board.

You knew............and you still said it.

I wouldn't want a quote like that attached to my name.

So you don't care about the rights of other hunters............that's great. We have some real special quotes coming out of this thread.


Saying that finding them will be easier but killing will not be is ludicrous.



Read that back to yourself and tell me it doesn't sound stupid. So you don't care about your right to free speech or have a weapon or practice religion either?? Your way of thinking is scarey...........assuming you are thinking at all of course.



So you are asking to just be left alone to hunt the way YOU choose???

Sounds familiar


I mean this sincerely............there is NO WAY I will EVER respect an opinion that is justified by comparisons to spoiled millionaire athletes and followed up by statements showing a blatant disregard for other hunter's rights and freedom in general.

I respect your right to express that opinion but that is as close as you will ever get.

Some of the opinions expressed by "fellow" hunters in the last day or so on this board have really dampened my spirits about where we stand right now.............and what the not too distant future holds.