sd_buckeye

Muley69, I'm sorry but if you don't think that hunting with the INTENTION TO KILL without a liscense isn't POACHING, you have been truly misguided, and i hope you come to your senses some day and see the truth for what it really is.

dohcrxl

p.s.s. I'm not seeking any leniency from the courts; This is difficult as is.

hogshot

I want to know what it felt like to be standing face to face with the law telling a lie? All the while your "friend" standing there letting you take the heat. What was the conversation like on the way home? Boy, I am glad I am not in your circle of "friends".

Kybuckhunter

You run with outlaws you hang with outlaws....from Lonesome Dove when they hanged their buddy. Good words to live by.

MichaelT.

dohcrxl,

I am not here to crucify you. Thats not my place. But in relation to your new delemma, I can only say this. It sounds as though you love your wife. And you already know how she feels. Deception has already cost you once in this ordeal. If I am correct, you could compromise your ideal and live with it .... easier than lying to your wife. It would be a constant haunt to you about her finding out about your deceiving her. And , woe to him whose wife finds out about his deception. I say if the guy wishes to pay and it is what your wife believes to be right, and just talking to her about how you feel will not change her mind, then let it be. But do not ever put yourself in that type of situation again. Good can never come from lies and deception. Just look at how the original deception has blown up and what it has cost, and I don't just mean in dollars.

Good luck

God Bless

chiefks

dohcrxl... Lying is what got you into trouble in the first place. Well part of why you got into trouble. Lying to your wife and trying to find a way to pay your buddy back is only going to make things worse. Lying is NOT the answer. I would go along with what your wife and friend think on this matter. You know you were wrong and have admitted that. Don't make the situation become worse than it is. Maybe you should talk to your wife about paying half the fine and telling her why you want to pay half it.

Few years ago, my cousin borrowed my 2 man scamp to go fishing in the fall. He loaded up and went by himself to a small body of water just 3 miles from the house. Little while later I jumped on my 4 wheeler and rode over to check on him, see if he was catching anything. Parked the ATV next to his truck, and walked around to where he was fishing. He had caught and released a few bass, was about done fishing for the day. So he picked me in the boat and I rode over to the boat ramp with him, figured I'd save myself some walking since I am disabled due to lung issues. We had almost made it to the ramp when the game warden pulled up. I was not fishing, had no gear to fish, but did have my license to fish. Only trouble was, my cousin didn't throw the life jackets in the boat. Boat was in my name, I got written the ticket. Pissed me off. I felt like my cousin should pay the fine. Bottom line is and was, that I was guilty also. I was in the boat without life jackets. My cousin didn't offer to pay a single dime. If the boat would have been in his name, he would have got the ticket.

I used to have a friend that does the same thing as your friend did. He shot a doe when bow hunting with a friend of mine, didn't want to use his buck tag on it. Wouldn't let my friend put his doe tag on it. In short he poached a deer. I won't hunt with him, and neither will my friend who was with him that night. The friend who poached that deer, can't seem to figure out why no one will hunt with him... HE hasn't poached any more deer that I know of, but I do know he's still not playing by the rules. Hunting without tags ect... This kind of sounds like something your friend would do. I'd quit hunting with him before you get into any more trouble.

muley69

Facing no penalty would make it legal junior, if you lack the intellectual capacity to understand the crux of my post, don't waste my time arguing moot points. Join the rest of the lemmings in feeling it's alright to lose private proprty via government confinscation over trivial matters. Now go drink some kool-aid and study your history

I am not proposing some vast gov conspiracy as one idiot suggested. I am talking about having the mentallity that one is fortunate the did not lose private property for commiting a simple crime. It's about ridiculous over reaching law enforcement that everybody should be concerned with. You should not go to jail for poaching a freakin deer, you should not have your truck confinscated because your buddy didn't have a license, and it's alarming that you people seem ok with this.

Muley69 all this above is quoted of you. And excuse me sir, but I am far from being an idiot, and a test of intellect is something you should not wish for in this instance.

Now if you read the quotes from yourself above, you will see where your constant rant is the idea that we are ok with someone losing their personal property over a minor infraction. Well , sir, just who are you to decide what is minor? Perhaps many here consider that a major infraction. Or how about this train of thought, if the citation only was a fine of 50.00, then how many morepeople would try to get away with it. Perhaps the cost is designed to act as a deterrant. I can define that word if you need me to. And finally sir, if you do not commit that crime or any other that might result in the same deterrant type of cost, then sir you will be allowed to keep your truck and gun and whatever else you may have in your posession. If you cherish your posessions , stay on the right side of the law, because what YOU consider to be minor does not matter.

Also Muley69, he never faced the loss of his truck, and noone said that that is applicable in this situation, soooooo where you are getting this I cannot begin to imagine. Also, the gov. conspiracy theory stuff I mentioned is about people who believe the gov. is out to take property from people for no good reason. That gov. is inherently bad, and that is what was coming throughin those posts. If that is not what you were intending, then I apologize for reading and taking your post literaly.

Signed,

The idiot..... How laughable. Sir, you are funny.

God bless


Wolfhound76

Point taken, although I offer that I never said that they are all good, just as I don't believe that they are all bad. But , yes, there are bad apples in every group of people, workers, agencies, or government bodies. And those need to be ferreted out and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, just as those were that they offended.

Thanks

God Bless
[/quote] Good grief, if your going to make the ridiculous deterrent argument then why stop there? Why not life in prison for drunk driving? Why not 100k fine for speeding? Your argument is silly and nonsensicle. Any government agency can site deterrent as a reason for confiscating private property, then sell thegoods to finance their operations, can't you see an obvious conflict there? Maybe to many on this board, hunting w/o a license is a MAJOR infraction, but to the more reasonable members of society, we reconize that certain crimes are petty, and this is one.The problem that I pointed out, was with the lemming like mentality that we are fortunate not to lose these things, when in fact, we should look at it as ridiculous. Frankly, if you or anybody else considers hunting w/o a license asa crime worthy of losing your work truck, I truly feel sorry for you. Perhaps your time is better spent studying the manifesto, and leave the freeman work to those of us willing to carry the load.

Rickmur

You are so right Mike. I can't beleive youdohcrxl are even considering another web of deciet. And to say so here, what, you want another 10 pages of responses. Time to close this one down, it has run it's course.

Ray Hunter 42

Well i think you will be able to get your friends one fine dropped (the atempting to take a deer one)

Because me and my dad got busted 2 years ago by the warden.

Now what we did was not really our fault. What happend was we live in MD and have a rental house and and auto shop in PA so we called the head people of the licenses and asked since we pay all these different taxes in PA can we get a resident license.

They said YES and the guy at the shop where we got the license from also SAID YES and ISSUED US A RESIDENT LICENSE.

Well we kept getting one for a few years then 2 years ago we got checked and they said that was wrong and it was our fault (well my dads fault since they didnt want to put this on a kid) for haveing the resident license when we lived in MD.
We told them the hole story about the headquarters or what ever they are called and about how the shop said its fine also but they didnt care.

So they ended up right there takin our licenses, guns, and the deer i just shot.

And they fined us with like 1200 bucks worth of stuff. But again they just didnt give me any fines and dubbled my dads.

But we got hit with buying the license, hunting with it, attempting to take a deer with it and then taking a deer with it. So it was like all the same thing basicly.

Well the judge thought the same and he did lower it to like 800 bucks but still thats alot of money when we were just doing what we were told we were alowed to do.

MichaelT.

Good grief, if your going to make the ridiculous deterrent argument then why stop there? Why not life in prison for drunk driving? Why not 100k fine for speeding? Your argument is silly and nonsensicle. Any government agency can site deterrent as a reason for confiscating private property, then sell thegoods to finance their operations, can't you see an obvious conflict there? Maybe to many on this board, hunting w/o a license is a MAJOR infraction, but to the more reasonable members of society, we reconize that certain crimes are petty, and this is one.The problem that I pointed out, was with the lemming like mentality that we are fortunate not to lose these things, when in fact, we should look at it as ridiculous. Frankly, if you or anybody else considers hunting w/o a license asa crime worthy of losing your work truck, I truly feel sorry for you.


OK, Muley69,

First, I don't believe my thoughts to be rediculus. What I am stating therewas not how I think it should be, but moreover, why I think things are the way they are. In other words, why certain penalties are what they are. Now, your next statements about drunk driving and speeding are over the top. But I believe you meant that to be the case, in an attempt to make a point.

Now , the first thing we can agree on, is that there can be a problem with the idea of the confiscation of personal property by governmental agencies, to fund their own operations. With out strict guidelines, and outside policeing, there is the possibility of abuse. But by virtue of that possibility, we as citizens, with specific rights, have the right to council as our protection. Also, agencies have the duty to make known the laws of their agency, to the common public. Now, as I have said before, if you do not break the law, you have nothing to worry about. Also, I have heard and read of infractions where the confiscation of all of the hunters personal items used in the infraction was applicable, but the officers only confiscated a small portion of what was allowable. I can bet that there are also times when the reverse is true, but I believe the system operates the best it can. That the officers do the best they can. But, no system is perfect, so we work with what we have.

And finally, to address your statement about minor violations and a lemming like mentality, you are correct sir that NO MINOR VIOLATION SHOULD RESULT IN THE LOSS OF A VEHICLE. And they don't. Not in this situation, or any other minor violation, so the argument is moot. I said it earlier, that hunting without a license would not make anyone lose their vehicle, so there is no lemming mentality here. People can be thankful that there was not a worse violation, such as poaching which could lead to that type of loss, ( it does not have to , but it could ), and I think that is closer to the thought process here.

But thank you for an intersesting discussion on this matter. But I feel like we havetaken overanother mans thread, and I hate it when that happens, so I will let the discussion of this end here and give my fellow hunter his thread back.

And for my rudeness in my part of taking over this thread I offer my apologies.

God Bless