ar restictions for ny
02-22-2009, 05:49 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: central NY
Posts: 103
ar restictions for ny
here comes more unwanted change. http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/20...lming_sup.html
02-22-2009, 05:57 AM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blossvale, New York
Posts: 21,199
RE: ar restictions for ny
I don't think it's going to expand any time soon. They say they'll need 80 percent in agreement before they do it. Most NY hunters are in it for the meat and don't really worry about a big rack. Oh if one comes along they're real happy.... but they aren't interested in growing bone.
02-22-2009, 06:15 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: central NY
Posts: 103
RE: ar restictions for ny
i hope thats the case,but i posted on the syracuse .com website with many others against it and we keep getting deleted,so i am going to make sure every hunter in ny knows what some groups are trying,personally i am a(so called)trophy hunter,i very raely take small bucks,and almost never take doe,but that is my thing.in no way should it be forced on everyone.
02-22-2009, 06:38 AM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 819
RE: ar restictions for ny
Sometimes you need to "force restrictions" on people. That's why there are seasons and harvest limits. Antler restrictions not only grow bigger bucks, they bring the buck-doe ratio back to where nature intended it, which is 1-1.
As stewards of the land and its inhabitants, it is our responsibility to keep things in balance. If you want meat shoot a doe. What is the sense of shooting a spike buck that may posess the genes necessary to keep the herd strong?
Think about how many rubs and scrapes do you see out there. How often do you see bucks fighting over breeding rights. I used to see it often. I havent seen two bucks fighting in years. We have so many does and so little bucks in many areas, these signs are disappearing, because the bucks are so busy breeding the vast amount of does out there. That permits any rinky dink buck to breed, which is not what is supposed to happen. Only the largest /strongest bucks should bedoing the breeding.
As stewards of the land and its inhabitants, it is our responsibility to keep things in balance. If you want meat shoot a doe. What is the sense of shooting a spike buck that may posess the genes necessary to keep the herd strong?
Think about how many rubs and scrapes do you see out there. How often do you see bucks fighting over breeding rights. I used to see it often. I havent seen two bucks fighting in years. We have so many does and so little bucks in many areas, these signs are disappearing, because the bucks are so busy breeding the vast amount of does out there. That permits any rinky dink buck to breed, which is not what is supposed to happen. Only the largest /strongest bucks should bedoing the breeding.
02-22-2009, 07:04 AM
#5
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: central NY
Posts: 103
RE: ar restictions for ny
well we do have some test area around that are trying ar restrictions,and the DEC findings are not quite what the qdma findings are.im just making sure most hunters know what is going on,most hunters in upstate ny that i have spoken too do not play on the internet.and pay attention to seasons, and doe permits. i do find it a little scary that some say (Sometimes you need to "force restrictions" on people.) i dont think thats what are forefathers had in mind.i think many think that this is going to make ny start having Missouri/Minnesota class trophy bucks...its not,the DEC even says that.ny has big trophy deer,i am a trophy hunter ,they are out there,it just takes some old fashioned hard work.like i said im just making sure hunters in upstate ny know...here is a quote from the DEC on what to expect from ar restrictions..... Antler restrictions are not needed to improve
deer health or breeding in New York.
An antler restriction to protect yearling
bucks is not trophy management. Hunters
should not expect a dramatic increase in the
number of record-class bucks taken.
Antler restrictions should not be confused
with Quality Deer Management (QDM).
Protection of young bucks is only one aspect
of QDM philosophy.
The pilot program in the Catskills indicates
that antler restrictions are unlikely to increase
license sales or hunting participation.
deer health or breeding in New York.
An antler restriction to protect yearling
bucks is not trophy management. Hunters
should not expect a dramatic increase in the
number of record-class bucks taken.
Antler restrictions should not be confused
with Quality Deer Management (QDM).
Protection of young bucks is only one aspect
of QDM philosophy.
The pilot program in the Catskills indicates
that antler restrictions are unlikely to increase
license sales or hunting participation.
02-22-2009, 10:37 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 819
RE: ar restictions for ny
ORIGINAL: snuffynra
well we do have some test area around that are trying ar restrictions,and the DEC findings are not quite what the qdma findings are.
There is a time factor involved with this also. It takes 5 to 7 years of control for results to become evident. There is the learning curve of people still shooting underage class bucks in the beginning, poaching etc. Remember we are comparing apples (private land) to oranges (state land) here also.
im just making sure most hunters know what is going on,most hunters in upstate ny that i have spoken too do not play on the internet.and pay attention to seasons, and doe permits. i do find it a little scary that some say (Sometimes you need to "force restrictions" on people.) i dont think thats what are forefathers had in mind. (And I am glad you are informing them/us!)
Our forefathers were talking about inalienable rights, like self preservation. If we do not have restrictions, many populations of many species would be extinct or extirpated from an area. As they almost once were. No one has the right to decimate a population of any given animal, No one has that right, as it is not anyone's right to damage something beyond repair. We all have the right to do whatever we want until it affects someone else's right to enjoy these things.
i think many think that this is going to make ny start having Missouri/Minnesota class trophy bucks...its not,the DEC even says that.ny has big trophy deer,i am a trophy hunter ,they are out there,it just takes some old fashioned hard work.like i said im just making sure hunters in upstate ny know...
I don't believe NY state has the genetics or the soil to grow bucks like they do in Minnesota, or many other places in the country. The nutrients and the PH of the soil in many states is better at growing antlered animals. There is an old saying, I think it was Aldo Leopold who said "The Antlers are in the soil". With that said of course New York is capable of growing very respectable class animals when the conditions are favorable. The food has to be there along with the genetics. The most attainable thing we can contribute is the length of time needed for them to reach maturity and attain their maximum antler growth.
here is a quote from the DEC on what to expect from ar restrictions..... Antler restrictions are not needed to improve deer health or breeding in New York.
An antler restriction to protect yearling bucks is not trophy management. Hunters
should not expect a dramatic increase in the number of record-class bucks taken.
Antler restrictions should not be confused with Quality Deer Management (QDM).
Protection of young bucks is only one aspect of QDM philosophy.
True, antler restriction is but one aspect of Quality Deer Management, however it is the easiest hole in the bucket that we can fill. We can't put food plots on state land so deer get bigger, but practicing trigger control and letting them get some age on them is an easy (relatively speaking!) part of the puzzle.
The pilot program in the Catskills indicates
that antler restrictions are unlikely to increase
license sales or hunting participation.
well we do have some test area around that are trying ar restrictions,and the DEC findings are not quite what the qdma findings are.
There is a time factor involved with this also. It takes 5 to 7 years of control for results to become evident. There is the learning curve of people still shooting underage class bucks in the beginning, poaching etc. Remember we are comparing apples (private land) to oranges (state land) here also.
im just making sure most hunters know what is going on,most hunters in upstate ny that i have spoken too do not play on the internet.and pay attention to seasons, and doe permits. i do find it a little scary that some say (Sometimes you need to "force restrictions" on people.) i dont think thats what are forefathers had in mind. (And I am glad you are informing them/us!)
Our forefathers were talking about inalienable rights, like self preservation. If we do not have restrictions, many populations of many species would be extinct or extirpated from an area. As they almost once were. No one has the right to decimate a population of any given animal, No one has that right, as it is not anyone's right to damage something beyond repair. We all have the right to do whatever we want until it affects someone else's right to enjoy these things.
i think many think that this is going to make ny start having Missouri/Minnesota class trophy bucks...its not,the DEC even says that.ny has big trophy deer,i am a trophy hunter ,they are out there,it just takes some old fashioned hard work.like i said im just making sure hunters in upstate ny know...
I don't believe NY state has the genetics or the soil to grow bucks like they do in Minnesota, or many other places in the country. The nutrients and the PH of the soil in many states is better at growing antlered animals. There is an old saying, I think it was Aldo Leopold who said "The Antlers are in the soil". With that said of course New York is capable of growing very respectable class animals when the conditions are favorable. The food has to be there along with the genetics. The most attainable thing we can contribute is the length of time needed for them to reach maturity and attain their maximum antler growth.
here is a quote from the DEC on what to expect from ar restrictions..... Antler restrictions are not needed to improve deer health or breeding in New York.
An antler restriction to protect yearling bucks is not trophy management. Hunters
should not expect a dramatic increase in the number of record-class bucks taken.
Antler restrictions should not be confused with Quality Deer Management (QDM).
Protection of young bucks is only one aspect of QDM philosophy.
True, antler restriction is but one aspect of Quality Deer Management, however it is the easiest hole in the bucket that we can fill. We can't put food plots on state land so deer get bigger, but practicing trigger control and letting them get some age on them is an easy (relatively speaking!) part of the puzzle.
The pilot program in the Catskills indicates
that antler restrictions are unlikely to increase
license sales or hunting participation.
It's not always about the hunters. If guys want meat, shoot a doe, they taste just as good if not better and it helps the herd structure vs. shooting an immature buck. If New York believed that so wholeheartedly, why is it that DMAP permits for crop damage insist only does are taken? That's what a friend of mine ni Northeast New York is told when he gets permits for his tree farm.
Thanks, good conversation!
02-22-2009, 10:53 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: central NY
Posts: 103
RE: ar restictions for ny
those states as like Missouri,Minnesota,Texas have always had that class of deer.just as the DEC and wildlife biologist both say in the link.you wont see more trophy class deer,that is where the misconception is,you may in time see more good sized racks,not many go on hunts in different states to take 6 pointers.like i said before,i am a trophy hunter,i have taken several very nice bucks all from upstate ny,thats what makes them trophys. just my thoughts.
02-22-2009, 11:05 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Altmar New York USA
Posts: 1,247
RE: ar restictions for ny
I'm not surprised at this in the least. From the beginning 3yrs ago, the DEC said this was a test pilot. I give the DEC credit for handling it the way they are. I mean they could just push it upon the whole state as PA did. So least they're taking their time, studying the situation, and surveying hunters on it all. Plus they've set a minimum limit in order to go through with any expansion of it. Thats not shoving it down our throats at least!.
I have mixed feelings on A.R.'s. I'd like to see a healthier herd, better ratios, and a few more larger bucks.But A.R.'s don't protect the yearling bucks with nice potential. I looked overthe racks on mycamp wall from yrs of hunting. 90% were yearling bucks. All but 2couldn't have been harvested under presentAR restrictions. 3 pts on at least 1 side doesn't protect all the yearlings. It only protectsthe spikes, 3pts, and 4 pts. I believea minimum spread should be included, beyond the ears is a easy onethat'd cover alot more yearling deer.
I also feel their is alot more interest in A.R's, that some here realize. The 2 thingsmany, many hunters want to see in the woods is either numbers or large bucks. After all its what most every hunter dreams of is harvesting a large rack record book buck someday.If they can't do that they like to see alot of deer.
Another thought on this if you've ever read any of the Anti's claims on deer hunting. One of the main things they say against us is we proclaim to be sportsmankilling animals for the sake of a healthier herd. But yetwe target any deer, and kill mostly small bucks. Is that the kind of image we want to be used against us?
I have mixed feelings on A.R.'s. I'd like to see a healthier herd, better ratios, and a few more larger bucks.But A.R.'s don't protect the yearling bucks with nice potential. I looked overthe racks on mycamp wall from yrs of hunting. 90% were yearling bucks. All but 2couldn't have been harvested under presentAR restrictions. 3 pts on at least 1 side doesn't protect all the yearlings. It only protectsthe spikes, 3pts, and 4 pts. I believea minimum spread should be included, beyond the ears is a easy onethat'd cover alot more yearling deer.
I also feel their is alot more interest in A.R's, that some here realize. The 2 thingsmany, many hunters want to see in the woods is either numbers or large bucks. After all its what most every hunter dreams of is harvesting a large rack record book buck someday.If they can't do that they like to see alot of deer.
Another thought on this if you've ever read any of the Anti's claims on deer hunting. One of the main things they say against us is we proclaim to be sportsmankilling animals for the sake of a healthier herd. But yetwe target any deer, and kill mostly small bucks. Is that the kind of image we want to be used against us?