SteveBNy

Are you saying Tx has 3 point AR statewide and this is the only difference between it and NY?
Therefore Tx does it, so should NY?

Steve

timbercruiser

If the state wants to have antler restrictions on public land, then I would be O.K. with it, however on my private land if my grandsons or myselfwant to shoot a spike or other "non-trophy grade" deer then that should be my business.

DeerandbearhoG

Are you trying to say the older bucks with the biggest racks, do the most breeding? Simply not true, in fact Id bet the older bucks are the ones that dont do much breeding at all cause their hiding while the smaller ones are running around breeding.

Its seems totally ridiculous that hunters think they can control the breeding habits of deer.

Remnard

I'm saying the dominant bucks with the most sense are doing the lions share of the breeding year after year. Bucks get old because they are smart. How much seed do you think the yearling bucks that are running around during the day are planting? They may breed one or 2 does before they get shot by some meat hunter but the smarter 5-6-7 year old bucks that are hiding during the DAY are doing the lions share of the breeding at night. Thats why smart deer that know better become nocturnal. Buck supression pretty much keeps the beta bucks from doing a lot of breeding. If you were getting shot at while trying to pick up women during the day, you would start trying to do it at night pretty quick aslo.

I'm not saying we can control the breeding habits of deer. What I am saying is if you leave a good cross section of age classes they will sort them selves out and nature will take over as far as who is doing the breeding. The normal natural structure is 1:1 when we screw with that it causes too many deer per square mile, which is why we are up to our eyeballs in deer in some areas.


Its not about the hunter.

DeerandbearhoG

I'd love to know how any hunter, knows for a fact, that big bucks are "doing the lions share of breeding" at night. Are you watching deer breed at night, w/ infrared goggles from your treestand? Any deer that have had their breeding habits studied ,have been in a controlled environment, and were not likely to be pressured into breeding nocturnally. Even wild deer tracked w/ a radio collar, how would they know when deer were breeding?

Most things in nature are alot simpler than humans perceive them to be. I think deer get big because they have adapted to hunting pressure to the point,that some can even resist the urge to breed in order to avoid hunters. I dont think its intelligence though, I think its just instinct.

I dont think any deer are "smart" ,and "dominance" in the deer world is a myth too IMO, they are herd animals, not pack animals like canines, I think they fight out of sheer aggression due to increased testosterone during the prerut.

timbercruiser

Like many of you, I've read of trhe control situations where they take a large high fence area, put a bunch of ubred does in there and then put a number of different age bucks with them. Later on the fawns are tested by DNA and the results show that the majority of the time there are only a few of the bucks that actually do the majority of the breeding. The 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks seem to be the most agressive breeders and often there are some of the biggest bucks that breed very seldom. The DNA of young bucks should be basically the same as the old bucks anyway, unless they are superior bred bucks inserted in the herd from another area anyway.

kevin1

Every restriction that you accept is one less opportunityeveryone elsehas to hunt. Don't let the special interest groups tell you how to hunt, if you want to restrict yourself that's a choice you've had since day one, don't force it on everyone else. Restrictions inevitably force those who just want to hunt in peace to choose another hobby, and they outnumber the trophy hunter by a very large margin. If they decide to go fishing instead because it's less bother you run the risk of having fewer hunters keeping the herd in check, and eventually restrictions imposed on you that you won't like such as "no buck" seasons. Bag limits and what should be shot must be decided by those who are paid tomonitor the herd, not those who think they know better. The better game management agencies such as my state has manage for the overall good health of the herd in general, not strictly for trophy opportunities, the trophies are out there if you make the effort to find them. Another thing to consider is this, if your state becomes known for a large number of trophy bucks the incentive to cater to trophy management will quickly encourage the landowners of your state to lease ground to the highest bidder, and once that happens it will become very difficult to hunt affordably. Ask anyone who hunts the trophy states like Illinois and Iowa if you don't believe it. Be careful what you wish for headhunters, you may get it.