To stop a deer in its tracks
05-15-2008, 05:12 AM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jefferson County, Missouri
Posts: 7,684
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
ORIGINAL: Matt_M
Well, my only hope was to hear opinions from other hunters about the shots they like to take on deer. I wondered what brings them down on the broadside shots I have seen. I have seen them run after being hit on hunting shows, but the only times I have seen them drop is when they are hit by a rifle on those shows. Apparently the hunters are hitting them in the shoulders and not the lungs.
What I would not like to do is have to walk up and take a second shot on the deer. I would rather my shot kill the animal as quickly as possible, instead of only paralyzing the animal.
ORIGINAL: DannyD
Hi Matt,
Just curious. Why? Double lung shot will kill them every time. And you say they never get too far. So why the need to drop them?
I beg to differ on the Rifle shots always dropping them on the hunting shows. They run many times.
Hi Matt,
Just curious. Why? Double lung shot will kill them every time. And you say they never get too far. So why the need to drop them?
I beg to differ on the Rifle shots always dropping them on the hunting shows. They run many times.
What I would not like to do is have to walk up and take a second shot on the deer. I would rather my shot kill the animal as quickly as possible, instead of only paralyzing the animal.
but dont be fooled, the lungs do go behind the shoulders
05-15-2008, 03:37 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,414
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
ORIGINAL: Matt_M
Well, my only hope was to hear opinions from other hunters about the shots they like to take on deer. I wondered what brings them down on the broadside shots I have seen. I have seen them run after being hit on hunting shows, but the only times I have seen them drop is when they are hit by a rifle on those shows. Apparently the hunters are hitting them in the shoulders and not the lungs.
What I would not like to do is have to walk up and take a second shot on the deer. I would rather my shot kill the animal as quickly as possible, instead of only paralyzing the animal.
ORIGINAL: DannyD
Hi Matt,
Just curious. Why? Double lung shot will kill them every time. And you say they never get too far. So why the need to drop them?
I beg to differ on the Rifle shots always dropping them on the hunting shows. They run many times.
Hi Matt,
Just curious. Why? Double lung shot will kill them every time. And you say they never get too far. So why the need to drop them?
I beg to differ on the Rifle shots always dropping them on the hunting shows. They run many times.
What I would not like to do is have to walk up and take a second shot on the deer. I would rather my shot kill the animal as quickly as possible, instead of only paralyzing the animal.
Matt,
Generally, if you have a double lung shot you are not walking up on him and having to take a second shot. If truly a DLthe animal is dead by the time you get there.
05-15-2008, 09:22 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 19
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
ORIGINAL: DannyD
Matt,
Generally, if you have a double lung shot you are not walking up on him and having to take a second shot. If truly a DLthe animal is dead by the time you get there.
Matt,
Generally, if you have a double lung shot you are not walking up on him and having to take a second shot. If truly a DLthe animal is dead by the time you get there.
I should have added to that statement to clarify. What I meant was, I would rather not risk having to take a second shot, so I would not really want to consider the high shoulder shot. I have seen what the lung shots do, as I have hit all of my deer with one. You unplug the oxygen supply right then and there, and they get as far as they can go running while holding their breath.
I am examining that photo above of the skeleton, and to me it looks like the shoulder blade is above and in front of the lung by a tiny bit, but it's a little hard to tell exactly by the photo.
05-16-2008, 07:57 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,414
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
ORIGINAL: Matt_M
Danny,
I should have added to that statement to clarify. What I meant was, I would rather not risk having to take a second shot, so I would not really want to consider the high shoulder shot. I have seen what the lung shots do, as I have hit all of my deer with one. You unplug the oxygen supply right then and there, and they get as far as they can go running while holding their breath.
I am examining that photo above of the skeleton, and to me it looks like the shoulder blade is above and in front of the lung by a tiny bit, but it's a little hard to tell exactly by the photo.
ORIGINAL: DannyD
Matt,
Generally, if you have a double lung shot you are not walking up on him and having to take a second shot. If truly a DLthe animal is dead by the time you get there.
Matt,
Generally, if you have a double lung shot you are not walking up on him and having to take a second shot. If truly a DLthe animal is dead by the time you get there.
I should have added to that statement to clarify. What I meant was, I would rather not risk having to take a second shot, so I would not really want to consider the high shoulder shot. I have seen what the lung shots do, as I have hit all of my deer with one. You unplug the oxygen supply right then and there, and they get as far as they can go running while holding their breath.
I am examining that photo above of the skeleton, and to me it looks like the shoulder blade is above and in front of the lung by a tiny bit, but it's a little hard to tell exactly by the photo.
You're right Matt. In that illustration the shoulder looks forward of the lungs. Imagine where that offside shoulder is in that illustration. Once the deer stops the nearside shoulder should be fairly in line with the offside shoulder. Now the lungs are between them (i'm speaking of the lower end of the shoulder blade not up by the spine) If you want to take that shot you will most likely take out at least 1 shoulder and both lungs.
05-16-2008, 02:20 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,186
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
My $.02 on shot placement. With a high power, center fire cartridge, 243 Win. (6mm Rem.) or heavier hitter, any shot that will pass through the lung/heart area is the shot that I will take. For obvious reasons, a perfectly broadside shot is preferred. If I get that chance, I aim for just behind the shoulder about 1/2 up "height" of the deer's body. In my opinion that gives me the optimum chance of a clean kill and some room for 3" to 4" and maybe even6" error. A "heart shot" or "double lunged" deer will not go for and may just drop on the spot.It is not unusual for a clean, double lunged or heart shot deer to cover 50-200 uyards before going down. If they can stay on their feet even 10 full seconds, as fast as a paniced deer can run can be quiet a distance. That does not mean that the shot was poorly placed.It is rather a testament to the quicknees of a white tail.
The other shot I like is the frontal shot. But only when I have a great rest, the distance is not beyound say 200-250 yard and the cross-winds are easily manageable. I aim at the base of the neck, just above a line that connects the two front shoulders ... and adjust for drop if I need to. I have never had one even wiggle when hit in this location.
Because I hunt a lot from a tree stand, often 20' +/- above the ground, I have had many 15 - 50 yard severe downward angle shots. I prefer "walking away" angle. About 1' back of the neck, dead center of the body. If you hit the spine, the deer will drop in its tracks. If not, then the bullet angles forward through and catches at least one lung and probably does some significant hydraulic damage to the heart as well. One problem I have encountered a few times with this shot is that the exit hole will plug, especially on a shot that angle back through the gut area after passing through thelungs. Plugging will often almost totally eliminate the blood trail. I have lost the blood trail on a few of these. That is where Mojo and Tex come in ....my blood trailing weenie dogs.
As for intentional head, neck or spine shots ... I will leave those to the marksmen.
The other shot I like is the frontal shot. But only when I have a great rest, the distance is not beyound say 200-250 yard and the cross-winds are easily manageable. I aim at the base of the neck, just above a line that connects the two front shoulders ... and adjust for drop if I need to. I have never had one even wiggle when hit in this location.
Because I hunt a lot from a tree stand, often 20' +/- above the ground, I have had many 15 - 50 yard severe downward angle shots. I prefer "walking away" angle. About 1' back of the neck, dead center of the body. If you hit the spine, the deer will drop in its tracks. If not, then the bullet angles forward through and catches at least one lung and probably does some significant hydraulic damage to the heart as well. One problem I have encountered a few times with this shot is that the exit hole will plug, especially on a shot that angle back through the gut area after passing through thelungs. Plugging will often almost totally eliminate the blood trail. I have lost the blood trail on a few of these. That is where Mojo and Tex come in ....my blood trailing weenie dogs.
As for intentional head, neck or spine shots ... I will leave those to the marksmen.
05-17-2008, 06:35 PM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
I always go for the heart and lung area. Here's why. The kill area of this shot is 100%. You may have to track a little but so what. I have yet to see any of my deer go beyond 125 yards with a shot to the heart-lung area. Aiming for the spine narrows your kill area. Not a lot of room for error.
Todd
Todd
05-17-2008, 07:57 PM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 585
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
As stated previously, 4" below the spine (directly above the front legs) will drop them where the stand. I've took my first buck with this shot using a 12 ga rifled slug and my second buck with a .30-06. The 180gr .30-06 round ruined the some of the backstraps so I stopped taking that shot with a rifle. Last year I shot my first buck with a handgun and used that shot with a 44mag 240 gr bullet. It fell where it stood.
05-17-2008, 08:33 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: H.R., Virginia
Posts: 1,044
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner
ok, unless you take out the CNS, central nervous system, if you want DRT deer, your best bet, is use a bullet of high velocity, of light construction (middle of the road weight for caliber) and hit them at the point of most resistance, The shoulder blade.
Upon impact, just before the bullet starts to penetrate, a massive shockwave starting at the point of impact, goes in all directions (away from POI) it sends blood backwards through the major blood vessels, while the shockwave travels up the spine to the brainstem, this overwhelms the CNS causing all systems to shut down immediately.
now if the bullet does make it to the vitals it is more or less a moot point, the legs have allready jerked up and the deer is on its way down.
I've taken many many deer like this with calibers starting with the 223 all the way up to the 7mm STW, in larger slower calibers the deer still dies, with less meat damage but they are running as they go down, the best cartridges for this here on our small deer are the 243/6mm and 25/06.
all animals are about 70% water, the liquid displacement is what causes all this, like shooting a gallon jug of water.
I use this shot alot, due to liberal bag limits I'm not that worried about losing both shoulders, its only good for burger anyhow.
RR
ok, unless you take out the CNS, central nervous system, if you want DRT deer, your best bet, is use a bullet of high velocity, of light construction (middle of the road weight for caliber) and hit them at the point of most resistance, The shoulder blade.
Upon impact, just before the bullet starts to penetrate, a massive shockwave starting at the point of impact, goes in all directions (away from POI) it sends blood backwards through the major blood vessels, while the shockwave travels up the spine to the brainstem, this overwhelms the CNS causing all systems to shut down immediately.
now if the bullet does make it to the vitals it is more or less a moot point, the legs have allready jerked up and the deer is on its way down.
I've taken many many deer like this with calibers starting with the 223 all the way up to the 7mm STW, in larger slower calibers the deer still dies, with less meat damage but they are running as they go down, the best cartridges for this here on our small deer are the 243/6mm and 25/06.
all animals are about 70% water, the liquid displacement is what causes all this, like shooting a gallon jug of water.
I use this shot alot, due to liberal bag limits I'm not that worried about losing both shoulders, its only good for burger anyhow.
RR
Want to drop a deer? Hit the shoulders...it might spin in circles for a min but it will be right there on the ground.
05-18-2008, 04:16 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
Regarding losing the shoulder meat.
Not so fast Ridge! I love cooking the shoulder whole, with blade in. It is a long slow cooking process that will give you the best, most tender stew meat you have ever tasted. I have also used shoulder for burger, but once you try my stewing/braising process you'll be a believer in cooking shoulders whole. Takes a long time but is WORTH it!Oven temp is barely 185 deg and the whole process can take up to 12 hours, depending on shoulder size.
ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner
I use this shot alot, due to liberal bag limits I'm not that worried about losing both shoulders, its only good for burger anyhow.
RR
I use this shot alot, due to liberal bag limits I'm not that worried about losing both shoulders, its only good for burger anyhow.
RR
05-18-2008, 08:45 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: oxford county, maine
Posts: 2,206
RE: To stop a deer in its tracks
if you wanna drop them in their tracks every single timeget a caliber w/ a couple tons of energy. they usually go straight down w/ my '06 and a 180gr round nose but my .350 rem anchors them everytime no matter where i have hit them. everything from in the back of the head to just ahead of the rear hip bone. bang flop dead!