RD, I met Mr. Plott in Franklin,NC back in the late 60's. My Wifes family is from Brevard, and now are scattered between Ashville, Canton, Waynesville, Maggie Valley and Cherokee. We usally go twice a year!

My wifes Uncle from Maggie was a well knownBear hunter and his dogs were all Plott's.

stop talking bad about it if u havent been. i still hunt andhunt with dogs a few times a year and i can say without a shadow of a doubt that it funner to listen to the dogs baying than watchingthe grass grow out of a deer stand.

This is all a very interesting post. I work for a state conservation agency, and in our state you cannot hunt deer with dogs. I am okay with that; however, I think it's an unbelievably bad idea to try to stop any form of hunting.

I am a hunter. I bowhunt, black powder hunt, rifle hunt, turkey hunt, hog hunt, quail hunt, rabbit hunt, squirrel hunt and so on and I do it on both private and public lands. I also hunt squirrels with dogs.

I also work for a conservation agency, and we encourage all types of legal hunting. To do otherwise would in my opinion be just one more way to decrease the amount of hunters and their privileges as hunters.

I may be fine with deer dog hunting being illegal in my state, but I don't think I would ever advocate the banning of a "good" form of hunitng, and I think hunting with dogs "can" be a "good" form of hunting when done right. I sure hope my squirrel dogging is never stripped from me because another hunter keeps writing to a congressman who may or may not understand the dynamics of hunting and all its legal forms. I once read on one of these boards about guys thinking they should try to provoke legislation to ban shooting into trees (such as at squirrels) with a .22. That may sound nice at first, but boy would it be a hit at one of America's long time traditions and one more way that hunters are not allowed to hunt.

My guess is that most people who have something against one form of hunting simply don't understand every aspect or all the dynamics of it. For a long time I probably would have said running a squirrel to a tree with a dog and then shooting it out was unsportsmanlike, but I have a different perspective now that I actually engage in that activity. I see it as about the same as letting a bird dog locate game and point it out to you. It's not that different, and may be even be more dificult because of the sheer work that goes into finishing out a squirrel dog. It's about the dog work, and teaming up with them to have a good time in the woods. You probably won't kill as many squirrels with a dog on a huntas you could by sitting still and waiting for them like you would a deer. It just doesn't work that way, but it is still hunting. I would even like to see fall turkey hunting with dogs made legal in more states simply to increase fall hunting and good dog work. You can bust up a fall flock with a shotgun orby yelling,or you can do it with a dog that sits tight with you while they regroup. Personally, working with a dog to locate and then bust up a flock sounds more fun to me.

This is just some thoughts. Before anybody gets worked up (and I am calling it now -- somebody is going to say something even though I am giving this disclaimer) I do of course agree that any form of hunting should be legal and the participants should be good stewards of what they are allowed to do. Of course there are plenty who can mess it all up for everybody, but that happens even with treestand hunters and still hunters and any other hunter that is "normally accepted."

So let me see, dog hunters have "the lowest ethical standards"? A typical statement based on limited personal experiences not taking into consideration anything beyond the brim of your hat. Unfortunately there are many with the lowest of ethical standards but they are from all walks of life and all types of hunting.

New,

I have read all 13 pages of posts on this topic just so I don't get accused of coming in late and not understanding the topic. I am from VA also and have hunted the east and west sides of the mountains for over 30 years. When I was about 17, yes that young, I realized that the dog chasers had no respect for anyone elses land or border. You state many times that we shouldn't knock dog hunting if we have not done it. I have not in 30 years in VA been with a group of dog hunters that stopped a chase if it was proceeding onto someone elses land or lease. This is not just one group of hunters, but the norm here in VA. Now I don't know, your group sounds like stand up people that controls their dogs, but the lack of respect for the dog hunting is caused by the trespassing on others lands by the vast majority of Doggers. I watched a group of dog chasers release 4 groups of hounds at the top of the mountain and then drive to their lease at the bottom. The dogs chased and crossed at least 6 properties they did not have rights to, including mine. They do it every year and don't care about the other property owners. I started feeding their dogs and keeping them on my property until they come and look for them. Then I nicely ask them not to run their dogs on my land. This happens 3 or 4 times a season. They don't care about anything but thier hunt. The other thing that I noticed in my years of hunting is that nobody ever says anything about how the dog hunters routinely take shots at deer that are full out running. I see them emptying clips and throwing lead every year at deer they have no chance at putting down. I know for a fact that alarge number ofdeer are wounded in dog chasing. I have put down over 10 deer in the last couple of years that are limping through my property after one of the "Chases". I am glad to hear that you and your group respect others and the property lines, but don't think for a second that this is not as big a problem here in VA as it is down south. It is not a question of enjoying that style of hunting or of never doing it. It is a plain and simple trespassing issue. How do you think the group below me would react if I released a group of Pit Bulls every time they released their hounds? Would the dogs can't readexcuse work if the hounds turned up wounded or killed? They would shoot the Pit Bulls without thinking. The doggers are also very strict about coming onto their land. I was denied permission to track a hit deer onto their land just this year. I have now involved the courts and authorities and will bring this to a head before next season. The unfortunate truth here in VA is that you are getting lumped in with the bad apples in Dog Hunting because there is a lot more of them then you.

Mike

VA Mike,

Your post is sad, but true. I have also experienced the same problems you mentioned. It took me several years and clubs to find the one I am in now and despite our best efforts there are still other clubs near us that sound like the ones you mention.They hurt dog hunting and our image to the public. I am not oblivious to these things but I don't feel these guys outnumber us that bad and eventually they will be the ones forced out of what they like to do because of their own actions. Hopefully there will be enough of us "good" doggers to show up and present our input towards any changes.

This is a quote (not exact, I removed some of it)from myself from page six of this thread:

"Well like I said, some of us do control our dogs, do police our ranks, do develop and maintain good landowner relationships, respect adjacent landowners, and genuinely try to be a good example.

I can understand your pointsand have seen first hand lots of problems createdby some bad groups of guys. They ruin it for us all. Iagree thateventually dog huntingwill have to be reformed simply because it will be a necessity. It will probably be specific rules and guidelines and fines and penalties for infractions. For some of usnew rules and guidelines won'tbe a problembecause we are already controlling our hunts as for the others they willeither change their ways or get left behind."

This is still how I feel.

That's fine and dandy. You are welcome to have all the fun you want, as long as you keep your dogs on YOUR land. If they're on MY land, well...again... I hope they don't look too much likecoyotes.

Laws are laws and laws don't recognize your property lines. If you shoot someones dog you are breaking the law, and in doing so you are no better than someone trespassing, shooting from the road, etc. I understand how frustrating it is, I too have a small farm (around 100 acres) andme and my fatherprimarily bow and blackpowder hunt it. I have had dozens of encounters with peoples dogs running before the shotgun season on our piece while I am still hunting. As frustrating as it is I still am not going to stoop to law breaking myself. I usually just sit and continue to hunt, the dogs leave eventually the deer will settle back down. I have seen and lived both sides of dog hunting and will continue to do so untilsomething changes.All I know for sure isI believe in staying on the right side of the law no matter what side of the debate you are on.

Here dogs are not allowed to hunt deer! However bears are and 2 years ago they tried to stop it. This was a catch 22 as not only would it have stopped bear hunting with dogs. It was intended to fool people here to stop all hunting with dogs. You name it rabbits, coyotes, birds, and every other kind of dog hunting you can think of. I am glad it didn't pass here. I can remember watching a group of bear hounds run through while sitting and waiting for a deer to come out. So, I know how you feel but, we tollerate it here.

On another note I wonder what gives you the right to plant food crops to attract deer from someone elses property so yours can be posted and then say the deer here are mine. When it seems that they were enticed to come to your land to eat your food plot. Here in the winter months you should not feed any deer as they bunch up and attrack coyotes. Coyotes circle the deer and kill what they can. Here in the winter months it has been alot of deer. Also what happens when you take the food away and all of a sudden they need to find some on their own? The young deer must have a hard time when taking the only food source it knows away.

Nothing bad intended it's just my 2 cents.

They don't? So, you're saying that dogs and dog hunters have a right to cross whatever property lines they wish?