Deer are not that hard tokill to begin with. I don't say that to be smug but seriously if you have some decentland to hunt and put in your time scouting and hunting smart, ecspecially during bow or blackpowder, you will kill deer or at least have some oppurtunities. Thats what I like to do but after two months of still hunting I look forward to dog hunting tochange things up a little. It is not about the dogs hunting for you it is about the dogs hunting with you, there is a huge difference. If you ever happen to bein Southeast Va between Nov. 20 and Januaryand would like to come along and watch or participate in a dog huntpm me (seriously)I think you would take away a different opinion, it still might not be for you but it could shed some light from a different perspective.

Hey hypocrit
For someone claiming to be concerned about the young and impressionable hunter on this forum, this is you second post threatening violence. You are setting a great example for them. From someone that has had a dog killed and has killed one of my own for chasing deer, it is not an easy thing to have happen, but you get over it and move on. Whether you let your dog roam or not, if it is in a place it is not supposed to be and gets killed, YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible. I do have a zero tolerance policy for dogs chasing deer, but I will make an "effort" to catch a dog just passing thru. If I see it a second time, oh well...

That is what I was saying, hunting is not violence. Primate's references to hunting down and causing harm to anyone who shot his dog is. I fully agree that ethical hunting is not ethical (I believe many deer would disagree, but that's another issue ). I think hunting is as much a part of human nature as is breathing, it is the best way I have found yet in my life to relax, get away from city life and truly relax and just be.

My favorite part about my hunting spot is that my cell phone doesn't work. Sometimes it's a great feeling to be totally disconnected from the "modern" world even if only for a few days a year.



Once I'm done with school, I'll be in the Navy for sometime and there is about a 33% chance I'll be in VA for some part of that. I'd love to take you up on that offer should it play out that way. I guess I'e always viewed deer hunting as a man vs animal situation instead of man and dog vs animal, but you may be right, this could be a case of hating something until you've tried it.

I totally agree that deer are not that hard to kill. I and the 2 deer I've gotten in the past 2 years on heavily hunted public land with a 20 guage are perfect examples of that! This is why I can't see a need for dogs, but as I said, I've never done it, so it's probably unfair of me to judge it.

As far as dog being another tool and baiting not to be a fair tool, I have a feeling there are many on these boards who would disargee with you on that point just as I disagree on the dog topic.

djschuett,

Good luck with school and the Navy. My dad is retired Navy and I spent a good part of my youth between Pax River, MD and NAS Oceana in VA Beach. If you end up out this way pm me and I can send you a good list of public lands to hunt and at least 6 military installations you can hunt, one of which is Oceana and being that it is so close to many populated areas they only permit archery and blackpowder stillhunting. They also havehad a QDMA program in place since the early 90's and there are some real nice bucks taken out of there each season. Pax River has a pretty good program too from what I understand but I haven't been back to that area in several years. If you end up in VA you will be happy to know that baiting is not allowed during hunting season(you can have feed & supplements out during the off season but it must be up 30 days prior to opening day of archery season). I have been very fortunate over the years in VA and have killed 17 in the past two seasons (10 still hunting and 7 with dogs). Lots of does but a couple of decent smaller bucks and some blown oppurtunities at some big boys. I got access to a pretty prime piece a couple of years ago and next season I plan on holding out for one of those big boys I have been seeing. After taking the past two seasons to get the feel for the land and putting in lots of time studying photos/topos and scouting I am counting the days until the bow opener.

Thanks!

I only have a 20ga now, but once I get done with being a broke student and start having an income, I hope to get a bow as well as a muzzleloader.

Sounds like some great opportunities out there! I just want to be able to get some hunting in every now and again regardless of where I end up! Also sounds like you've had an incredibly successful past few years, Congrats and best of luck for next season! Time for me to hit the hay, gotta be at the hospital at 0500 tomorrow to round on newborns.

Sorry for the long post, as always, you don't have to read it.

Not real sure how I can make this any clearer, but here I go…

I do not run deer with dogs. I don’t really have anything against anyone who does either. I just don’t have any friends who do it, so I’ve never been invited to participate in a hunt like that. Since I’m ignorant on the subject due to my lack of experience I will refrain from commenting on skill level, ethics and whether it meets my expectations on the definition of “hunting” as others have mentioned.

I recently (last year) started going to get my dog when I had shot a deer, to assist in finding it. I did this even if I knew where the deer was, even if it were already dead. I did this so that he would be of great help in the event that I could not find a deer that I had shot, and was anticipating this scenario during bow season, since there seems to be a lot of “shot one, now what?” threads in that forum.

Late in bow season last year I shot a pretty nice buck late in the day. After the shot I waited about 30 minutes to get down from my stand and it was dark at this point. Once on the ground I decided that I wasn’t going to track this animal until morning, but decided to see if there was a blood trail or any other sign where the shot took place. Well, it appeared to be a bad shot on my part. There was hair on the arrow, but no blood and the arrow had a funny smell to it. No blood on the ground. The buck had paused about 30 yards away before jumping a stream, so I decided to investigate where he’d paused. Once I got over there I heard the deer off in the distance run further into the swamp and start making a hacking sound, almost like us dry heaving. No blood where the buck paused.

The next morning I returned with my dog Buddy. He’s an Australian Cattle Dog, or red heeler or Queensland heeler, not a tracking breed. To this point Buddy had found two dead deer for me. Well not really but he thought he had, I already knew where they were, but he did a great job once he knew what I wanted him to do. This time was no different, at least at first. Buddy was very pleased to be there and this was the first time he was being used when I didn’t know where the animal was. We walked around in the swamp for about 45 minutes looking for signs along with my friend (the land owner). My friend stated that he had to leave at this point and would return later to help if I still needed it. Buddy and I continue for a while with no luck. There are tracks all over down there so figuring out which ones belonged to him was tough. I decided to return to the place where the shot was made and let buddy smell the arrow. Who knows, maybe he’ll get wind of some thing we can’t see? Well on the way back to this area, Buddy stops to smell something. I go look to see what it is. It is bile, and very hard to see, knowing how critical this find was, I started congratulating him profusely. At that moment we hear the dry heaving again, but coming from up on a hill to the east. This moment was life changing for us. At that exact second, and I’m not really sure why, Buddy turned into a stalk hunter. He understood that this sound came from the animal we were looking for and that this time, the animal wasn’t dead. The hair on his neck stood straight up, he got about as low to the ground as he could with out dragging his stomach through the water and started sneaking toward the sound, with a slight growl. I could not believe what I was seeing. My dog/best friend was hunting, and with me. Pretty cool, I think, but that is just me. I knock an arrow and we start to stalk this buck. When I would stop, he would stop, and I never had to ask him to be quiet, he knew that he had to be quiet. It all just came together, and much better than if I had planned it.
Well, once Buddy and I got to with in fifty yards the buck sprang up and left the hill. He went over it in a hurry, but hunched over, confirming my poorly placed shot. This was devastating, not because I didn’t want to stalk him, but couldn’t the crest of this hill is the property boundary. After about an hour of investigating I was on the phone with a member of the hunt club that leases this land, and he agreed to meet me out there. They were late to arrive and I watched as they surveyed the area. Once we meet, they declined letting me continue and said “If he were there, we would have found him”. And then they left, well not really they continued to look for him and keep looking back at me and Buddy on the crest of the hill. I’m not sure who was more disappointed, me or Buddy, but calling it off was hard. Not only emotionally, but my obedient dog did not seem to want to listen and I had to hold his collar while exiting to get him to go with me. He doesn’t understand property boundaries or letting other have our deer for that matter.

Since that time Buddy and I have still-hunted quite a few times. Many of you act as if this isn’t hunting, you know, while using a dog, but I think that it is at least worth mentioning that we haven’t been successful. Sure it has been fun, but it is tough. I’m sure it would be much easier if it were two dogs, or two men. But the dog doesn’t understand easily that when you get with in the critical zone that the nose is no longer in charge, but now the man takes over and the dog is to follow. Training with out talking isn’t easy either, but he’s getting it, or I guess I should say we’re getting it.

I know how I hunt, and I can tell you that it would be easier if he were not there, but I’m glad to have him there with me. Just like I like having my kids with me and they too decrease my odds. But it is a cool new challenge, with one of my favorite beings. One man and one dog, hunting as one team.

I don’t think I’m being an irresponsible dog owner. My dog is my family companion. He is great with my four children. He would gladly give his life to protect them. He lives in my house and sleeps in my bed. I built a fence that surrounds two acres of yard so that he and my children have a safe place to play, where they can be contained. But like the rest of you, I also have a front door. And my children sometimes open it. My oldest son takes Buddy with him while taking out the trash at night. It’s pretty long driveway and Buddy is a great friend to have for a child alone in the dark. The farmer behind my house who loves to use my dog has damaged my fence with out knowing. The only way that I knew was Buddy was barking at my front door to come inside when he’d been let out back. My dog is healthy, vaccinated and loved. He swims in my pool during the summer and spends time on my hammock to rest while I work in the yard. Sometimes I wish I were him!

All I’m saying is, I don’t know how I would react to someone shooting my dog if he were to somehow get out and ruin someone’s hunt. I’m a hunter, and I know how bad is sucks to have someone or thing ruin your hunt, but I think that it is pretty fair to say that if you shoot someone’s dog, it might get ugly. Is that hard to understand? Am I an irresponsible dog owner who just has it coming to me? It’s only a matter of time before my nuisance animal is killed by some poor hunter? If a hunter were to shoot my dog, I can pretty much guaranty that this would be the first time he ever saw my dog, and that my dog is not a nuisance to anyone. All I’m saying is that there better be a better explanation than he may have screwed up my hunt, or there is going to be trouble. Sorry if you don’t like it, but you should be considering it when you make these types of decisions. And when I said that “people have been hurt for less” I wasn’t referring to me, or anything I’ve ever done to anyone. But people hurt others for no reason sometimes and shooting someone’s dog is giving them a reason in some cases. I’ve had hunters that think they should be able to run dogs on my dad’s land simply because they did it before he owned it and thought that this provided them some type of right to do it. And acted like they most important thing about the dog was that it was worth $50, because that is what he paid for it. This same guys has some missing dogs! But this guy doesn’t care about the dogs or the people who’s land they run on and was warned many times. All I’m saying is be careful when you make these decisions, cause once you pull the trigger, you cannot take the bullet back.
Good luck and happy hunting to all,
KP

I think what just about everyone is overlooking is that laws vary from state to state and each situation is different.

Here in IL it is illegal to hunt deer by running them with dogs.

We have not had any problems on the farm with the 2 neighboring property owners running deer with dogs. We have had nothing but good experiences with our 2 neighbors. The folks to the north hunt and the ones to the south do not but let us in there. It's mostly cows but there's some dandy areas of wooded cover - believe me.

We do have dogs come chasing deer or just snooping around. Seems every shotgun season atleast one will try to make it thru. We don't see them much when bow hunting because we bow in the deeper woods and shotgun more on field edges obviously because the guns have more range.

But we put way too much time and money to create a playground or dog run for some mutts to use as their own. The dogs we encounter are not the neighbors dogs and we keep ours chained up by the barn.

The dogs we encounter, who knows where they come from or how far they roam. But we don't tolerate them on the property. They all get lead poisoning ASAP. They have all beenragged, filthy mutts. Rarely a collar and never a tag.

We've never had anyone come looking for Rover or even ask about them.

If someone really cares about their dog(s) or considers them their "best friend" (hilarious) then they should take evry step and any step necessay to keep them in their immediate control.

What do you mean they all get lead poisoning ASAP ??

BANG! BANG! You're dead!

He shoots them.