Dog training for pheasant
10-06-2010, 07:29 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,693
Let me say that I am no expert in this area but can share what I'm going through with my 11 month old GSP at the moment. I tried to train a brittney years ago by myself and wound up with a worthless hunting dog. This go around I studied way more and got connected with a professional trainer at a pheasant farm.
Many believe a pup should be started on training right away (3mo's old) using pigeons, keeping it light and fun as already mentioned. I didn't have the opportunity to get my pup around birds until she was 9mo old. I did however do other work with her prior to this - the most important commands, whoa and come, as well as others.
The trainer I'm using trains from 6mo's old and on. Pigeons first with taped wings just to play with and fetch. Next session no tape, throw the bird and let the dog chase while shooting a cap pistol. Next session we moved to chukars and a 28 gauge shooting birds over her. Next we moved on to more chukars and a 20g. Next on to hen pheasants and a 12g. This method is how this trainer gun breaks a dog. It worked and worked extremely well. Next session we will move on to roosters and start the fine tuning process - steady on point, steady to shot, etc. This process seems to be working very effectively.
Things to do at home (the trainer gives me homework assignments), that have also helped out the process.
Whoa barrel - buy a blue plastic barrel and screw a 2x4 to the bottom so you can lay it on it's side and have it steady. Five minutes a day put the pup on the barrel and command whoa. If the pup gets down or slides off, don't scold, put the pup back on and keep doing this all the while you are petting and saying good dog. The idea is never to associate negatives. Pups learn quick.
"Find it" - tape a pheasant wing to a dummy (keep the dummy in a zip lock in the fridge, new wing every two weeks), put the dog in the crate or locked in a room. Get the dummy out ideally when the pup can see you, walk by the crate saying "want to find the bird?", clip a short lead on the dummy and walk it around laying down a scent trail and go hide it. Let the dog out and and excitedly command "FIND IT!". Every day put the dummy a little further away and harder to find. This not only teaches the dog to use their nose and the find it command, it makes them insane about birds, which is what you want in a bird dog.
Many have the talent and knowledge to train on their own. I do not thus the reason I'm spending money at a pheasant farm using a pro. I figure it'll be well worth it over the long haul to have a good dog that loves bird hunting.
Many believe a pup should be started on training right away (3mo's old) using pigeons, keeping it light and fun as already mentioned. I didn't have the opportunity to get my pup around birds until she was 9mo old. I did however do other work with her prior to this - the most important commands, whoa and come, as well as others.
The trainer I'm using trains from 6mo's old and on. Pigeons first with taped wings just to play with and fetch. Next session no tape, throw the bird and let the dog chase while shooting a cap pistol. Next session we moved to chukars and a 28 gauge shooting birds over her. Next we moved on to more chukars and a 20g. Next on to hen pheasants and a 12g. This method is how this trainer gun breaks a dog. It worked and worked extremely well. Next session we will move on to roosters and start the fine tuning process - steady on point, steady to shot, etc. This process seems to be working very effectively.
Things to do at home (the trainer gives me homework assignments), that have also helped out the process.
Whoa barrel - buy a blue plastic barrel and screw a 2x4 to the bottom so you can lay it on it's side and have it steady. Five minutes a day put the pup on the barrel and command whoa. If the pup gets down or slides off, don't scold, put the pup back on and keep doing this all the while you are petting and saying good dog. The idea is never to associate negatives. Pups learn quick.
"Find it" - tape a pheasant wing to a dummy (keep the dummy in a zip lock in the fridge, new wing every two weeks), put the dog in the crate or locked in a room. Get the dummy out ideally when the pup can see you, walk by the crate saying "want to find the bird?", clip a short lead on the dummy and walk it around laying down a scent trail and go hide it. Let the dog out and and excitedly command "FIND IT!". Every day put the dummy a little further away and harder to find. This not only teaches the dog to use their nose and the find it command, it makes them insane about birds, which is what you want in a bird dog.
Many have the talent and knowledge to train on their own. I do not thus the reason I'm spending money at a pheasant farm using a pro. I figure it'll be well worth it over the long haul to have a good dog that loves bird hunting.
Last edited by badshotbob; 10-06-2010 at 07:33 AM.
10-06-2010, 08:10 AM
#12
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 220
I believe that the worst thing you can do is bring the dog into the house and play with it. If it is going to be a working dog, you need to have it outside in a kennel.
When the dog plays too much it doesn't understand when you take it out to hunt that it is there to work and will run around and do as it pleases - usually ruining the hunting for everyone else there.
Train the dog to work and only praise it when it does good things and in time it won't do the bad things.
We have had dogs that chased deer, ran off and would not return, ones that you couldn't catch, ones that refused to listen, ones that ate what you shot. It all depends on who raises them and who trains them and how old they are when you get them.
Some dogs are just bad dogs and about the only thing you can do is give them away to someone else or give them a .22 pill and remove them from the gene pool.
Some dogs you should never breed and some dogs you should never buy from a breeder.
When the dog plays too much it doesn't understand when you take it out to hunt that it is there to work and will run around and do as it pleases - usually ruining the hunting for everyone else there.
Train the dog to work and only praise it when it does good things and in time it won't do the bad things.
We have had dogs that chased deer, ran off and would not return, ones that you couldn't catch, ones that refused to listen, ones that ate what you shot. It all depends on who raises them and who trains them and how old they are when you get them.
Some dogs are just bad dogs and about the only thing you can do is give them away to someone else or give them a .22 pill and remove them from the gene pool.
Some dogs you should never breed and some dogs you should never buy from a breeder.
10-08-2010, 03:03 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 860
Not letting a working dog inside is a fallacy. My dog is an inside dog, well socialized and still has the most prey drive I've ever seen (30+ years around bird dogs) to point of nearly being called psychotic. It also makes her very stubborn. She'll latch on to a scent and won't let go. Both good and bad. The good is she will track a running bird long distances, the bad, she'll go over scent where a bird has been over and over again.
My dog also knows when we are seriously hunting or when 'play hunting'. One of her favorite things to do is 'hunt' shorebirds. They run, fly low, and circle around. On hunting breaks, I let her go after them. After the break, we'll go back to real birds and she'll will ignore the shorebirds. After the hunt, I'll let her play again.
My dog also knows when we are seriously hunting or when 'play hunting'. One of her favorite things to do is 'hunt' shorebirds. They run, fly low, and circle around. On hunting breaks, I let her go after them. After the break, we'll go back to real birds and she'll will ignore the shorebirds. After the hunt, I'll let her play again.
10-13-2010, 12:44 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 510
There is no date to start a dog hunting. Each dog is different. I just put down my 13yr old GSP from a stroke back in April. She was steady to wing, shot and fall at 6 months old. Had her first point and retrieve on our very first trip out. Each dog learns at its pace remember that. Training starts as soon as they come home[I like them at 7 weeks]. The first and most important thing is their name. I use their name with each command.
You need to decide how you want your dog trained. Steady to wing and shot or wing shot and fall, with or without a E-collar[I use a collar]. My main commands are come, whoa, fetch, heel, kennel and potty.
Come is done with a long leash, let the pup out call name and come and drag the pup back to you. They will learn this quick, DON”T FORGET THE PRAISE!
Whoa[or whatever word you use for it] is learned from day one. They learn to wait for food at the bowl or to come out of the kennel. Formal whoa is learned at the post and over birds on lead.
Fetch starts with a sock in a short narrow hallway as a game.
Kennel works for home and truck, there are a couple different ways to teach it.
Heel is pretty simple.
Potty is a better command than most know. Every time you pup goes potty tell them they did good “Good Potty”. Once you start to travel with your dog, hit the rest station tell them potty and they know why they are out of the truck.
For the first year of hunting I don’t hunt with any other dog or person. If the situation isn’t right I don’t shoot at the bird. If I want steady to wing and shot for sure. Steady to fall is great control of your dog but maybe not the greatest if you’re not a great shot.
There are other higher teachings for a dog but this is a good start. Make a plan and stick with it. One command at a time, repetition makes it work. I make sure they have it in the yard before I try it in the field.
You need to decide how you want your dog trained. Steady to wing and shot or wing shot and fall, with or without a E-collar[I use a collar]. My main commands are come, whoa, fetch, heel, kennel and potty.
Come is done with a long leash, let the pup out call name and come and drag the pup back to you. They will learn this quick, DON”T FORGET THE PRAISE!
Whoa[or whatever word you use for it] is learned from day one. They learn to wait for food at the bowl or to come out of the kennel. Formal whoa is learned at the post and over birds on lead.
Fetch starts with a sock in a short narrow hallway as a game.
Kennel works for home and truck, there are a couple different ways to teach it.
Heel is pretty simple.
Potty is a better command than most know. Every time you pup goes potty tell them they did good “Good Potty”. Once you start to travel with your dog, hit the rest station tell them potty and they know why they are out of the truck.
For the first year of hunting I don’t hunt with any other dog or person. If the situation isn’t right I don’t shoot at the bird. If I want steady to wing and shot for sure. Steady to fall is great control of your dog but maybe not the greatest if you’re not a great shot.
There are other higher teachings for a dog but this is a good start. Make a plan and stick with it. One command at a time, repetition makes it work. I make sure they have it in the yard before I try it in the field.
10-13-2010, 03:13 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 811
Originally Posted by Outdoor
The purpose of skipping until the dog is close to 1 year old is not engraved in stone of course ...there are always exceptions...but rather let the pup enjoy "it's hunt". These are important steps in the pups life to becoming a good bird dog. A dog that enjoys the hunt rather than one that has been drilled into the program. SOME of us are too hungry to let a season go by...thats their decision. If my new setter (9 months old) wants to chase birds on her own and she enjoys it is MY OPINION that I will have a better bird dog next year. For me its not about the kill rather the time I spend with her...for that matter if she never turns out to be a classic thats OK too...she's my best friend.
Next week comes. She's really pumped now. Ready to go out. She goes. Searchs, uses her nose; finds a bird. "ohhhhhhh crap!. I better not move. Let's see if boss might be able to help me out here." She slams on point and waits for you. You approach. Bird flushes. If you don't shoot that bird, you will regret it. This is the best lesson you'll be able to teach your pup.
The bottom line, don't get hung up on the whole don't hunt the first year thing. Get hung up on the reality that your pup will bust a lot of birds, but this is the absolute best learning experience you can give her.
That's how I do it at least. It's worked pretty well for me. Good luck.
10-30-2010, 02:09 PM
#18
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1
You have to take your dog to the fields, because is the best way to arouse her hunting instinct, your puppy will start to sniff the pheasants and will become gradually interested in the hunting , i have had bird dogs for twenty years and my personal experience tells me that to take your dogs to the fields as much as you can is the best way to have fine bird dogs.be patient with your puppy because at firstit will be playing and running all around you, but suddenly it can fall on point and its hunting and pointing instinct will start to strenghten
Regards from Chulilla-Valencia-Spain-EU
Regards from Chulilla-Valencia-Spain-EU
10-31-2010, 03:59 PM
#19
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Lee , New Hampshire
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by mustad
I'm fine with most of what you are saying here, but isn't that hunting? You take the pup out in the woods. She works and searches; finds birds chases them. Great stuff. Guess what? She's going to want to go out again next week. Excellent. She goes out again and searches; finds birds and remembers "oh crap, I can't catch them, so I'll point." She points. You're 50 yards away. Her desire gets the better of her and she thinks, "Alright, I've got you now. Rushes in and the bird flies off and she chases." AWESOME. Isn't that part of hunting?
Next week comes. She's really pumped now. Ready to go out. She goes. Searchs, uses her nose; finds a bird. "ohhhhhhh crap!. I better not move. Let's see if boss might be able to help me out here." She slams on point and waits for you. You approach. Bird flushes. If you don't shoot that bird, you will regret it. This is the best lesson you'll be able to teach your pup.
The bottom line, don't get hung up on the whole don't hunt the first year thing. Get hung up on the reality that your pup will bust a lot of birds, but this is the absolute best learning experience you can give her.
That's how I do it at least. It's worked pretty well for me. Good luck.
Next week comes. She's really pumped now. Ready to go out. She goes. Searchs, uses her nose; finds a bird. "ohhhhhhh crap!. I better not move. Let's see if boss might be able to help me out here." She slams on point and waits for you. You approach. Bird flushes. If you don't shoot that bird, you will regret it. This is the best lesson you'll be able to teach your pup.
The bottom line, don't get hung up on the whole don't hunt the first year thing. Get hung up on the reality that your pup will bust a lot of birds, but this is the absolute best learning experience you can give her.
That's how I do it at least. It's worked pretty well for me. Good luck.
50 yards out??? I don't train for field trials I use my to hunt over/with
The point was to let your dog enjoy himself/herself and I am certainly not "hung up" on not letting the dog hunt the first year..like I said "each dog is different"
Mine is 10 months old now and I can shoot over her , there is no fear of the gun.
IMO the best thing anyone can do is go to a sporting club and pay to have the birds placed. Ask them to mark those locations with marking tape so you can judge what the dogs reaction is as they pick up the scent and get real close. My dog came to a full point on her 6th bird...picture perfect! If you can shoot over your dog all the better...I can and use a 20 gauge. I missed that "first" bird she pointed
and it was a easy shot! But she won't forget her job because I missed....you know why? She loves what she does an that IMO that is the foundation to a good bird dog.
11-07-2010, 10:55 PM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 860
Originally Posted by Outdoor
Not sure they think that way...
50 yards out??? I don't train for field trials I use my to hunt over/with
...
Mine is 10 months old now and I can shoot over her , there is no fear of the gun. ... My dog came to a full point on her 6th bird...picture perfect! If you can shoot over your dog all the better...I can and use a 20 gauge.
50 yards out??? I don't train for field trials I use my to hunt over/with
...
Mine is 10 months old now and I can shoot over her , there is no fear of the gun. ... My dog came to a full point on her 6th bird...picture perfect! If you can shoot over your dog all the better...I can and use a 20 gauge.
Also, 50 yards is common for pointing breeds. When your dog gets comfortable and can see you then they will range further out. At 10 months, your dog is going to stick relatively close.
