So whats the deal here?
10-13-2008, 08:33 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
So whats the deal here?
For some odd reason, my bow has started throwing arrows all over creation. And honestly I can't make heads or tails out of it.
So againest my better judgement, I shot through some paper this evening.
I got a dead left tear.... fletchings on the left, point on the right... probably about an inch or two. I've never been much on paper tuning, but what the heck... I don't have space to do anything else... all I got is about 25-30 yards and thats if I'm at the range alone.
So I move the rest over... and it gets worse.... I move it the other way... it gets better to the point of where it was... then starts getting worse. The guide says in that case it's a weak arrow reaction. I'm shooting Easton Axis 340's, 125gr heads, 29.5" draw and arrow, 61#s off an Iron Mace, and I use Tracer nocks. Total arrow weight is around 475 with crests and 2" twisters.
I don't have any clearance issues at all... cams are in perfect sync.... I tried a bunch of different grip positions... including ones that intentionally torqued the bow... and I didn't get much of anything else except a 2 inch left tear.
So, whats up?
So againest my better judgement, I shot through some paper this evening.
I got a dead left tear.... fletchings on the left, point on the right... probably about an inch or two. I've never been much on paper tuning, but what the heck... I don't have space to do anything else... all I got is about 25-30 yards and thats if I'm at the range alone.
So I move the rest over... and it gets worse.... I move it the other way... it gets better to the point of where it was... then starts getting worse. The guide says in that case it's a weak arrow reaction. I'm shooting Easton Axis 340's, 125gr heads, 29.5" draw and arrow, 61#s off an Iron Mace, and I use Tracer nocks. Total arrow weight is around 475 with crests and 2" twisters.
I don't have any clearance issues at all... cams are in perfect sync.... I tried a bunch of different grip positions... including ones that intentionally torqued the bow... and I didn't get much of anything else except a 2 inch left tear.
So, whats up?
10-14-2008, 11:12 AM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: masontown pa USA
Posts: 851
RE: So whats the deal here?
I though you didn't believe in paper tuning ?? 
You shouldn't have a tear that bad. I can't see a fixed blade head flying well with that kinda tear. Did you by chance shoot it through paper before ?
I think weak arrow reaction is out of the question with those arrows. The Axis shafts I've played with the past few years seem to be pretty tolerant of draw weight.
This might sound picky, but about 3 weeks ago I was playing with my bow, and twisting/untwisting the string to get my peep to turn in. Obviously, that changes the draw length slightly........Not a bunch, but enough so that if I went to far in either direction, I'd blow a tear through the paper that was similar to your's if the length was to short, or to long. Sounds crazy huh? But that was the case. Timing was otherwise dead on. This wasen't a case of string stretch, just me getting the peep set and paper tuning at the same time. I got a bullet hole with it, then walked-back and it was perfect. This little incident tipped me off and gave me an idea that this may be a good way to check if my draw is set properly for me and my shooting style.
NowI know nothing aboutyourbow and it's cam/cable system. But do you have aY cable off the toplimbthat can you can twist/untwist to perhaps fix aleaning cam ? Have you looked at your cams ?
Usually if something is wrong in arrow flight, I can pick it up at 30 yards on a walk back. 40 just further convinces me, but most of the time it'll show up at 30 enough to tell me which way I need to go with the rest.
By the way.......what rest are you shooting ? Has something gone wrong there ?...... - fall away cord stretched, spring broke etc...I've had stretched drop-away cord drive me nuts for a week. That cord does stretch...
And are you right handed ?
You shouldn't have a tear that bad. I can't see a fixed blade head flying well with that kinda tear. Did you by chance shoot it through paper before ? I think weak arrow reaction is out of the question with those arrows. The Axis shafts I've played with the past few years seem to be pretty tolerant of draw weight.
This might sound picky, but about 3 weeks ago I was playing with my bow, and twisting/untwisting the string to get my peep to turn in. Obviously, that changes the draw length slightly........Not a bunch, but enough so that if I went to far in either direction, I'd blow a tear through the paper that was similar to your's if the length was to short, or to long. Sounds crazy huh? But that was the case. Timing was otherwise dead on. This wasen't a case of string stretch, just me getting the peep set and paper tuning at the same time. I got a bullet hole with it, then walked-back and it was perfect. This little incident tipped me off and gave me an idea that this may be a good way to check if my draw is set properly for me and my shooting style.
NowI know nothing aboutyourbow and it's cam/cable system. But do you have aY cable off the toplimbthat can you can twist/untwist to perhaps fix aleaning cam ? Have you looked at your cams ?
Usually if something is wrong in arrow flight, I can pick it up at 30 yards on a walk back. 40 just further convinces me, but most of the time it'll show up at 30 enough to tell me which way I need to go with the rest.
By the way.......what rest are you shooting ? Has something gone wrong there ?...... - fall away cord stretched, spring broke etc...I've had stretched drop-away cord drive me nuts for a week. That cord does stretch...
And are you right handed ?
10-14-2008, 05:54 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: So whats the deal here?
ORIGINAL: Mikey S.
I though you didn't believe in paper tuning ?? You shouldn't have a tear that bad. I can't see a fixed blade head flying well with that kinda tear. Did you by chance shoot it through paper before ?
I think weak arrow reaction is out of the question with those arrows. The Axis shafts I've played with the past few years seem to be pretty tolerant of draw weight.
This might sound picky, but about 3 weeks ago I was playing with my bow, and twisting/untwisting the string to get my peep to turn in. Obviously, that changes the draw length slightly........Not a bunch, but enough so that if I went to far in either direction, I'd blow a tear through the paper that was similar to your's if the length was to short, or to long. Sounds crazy huh? But that was the case. Timing was otherwise dead on. This wasen't a case of string stretch, just me getting the peep set and paper tuning at the same time. I got a bullet hole with it, then walked-back and it was perfect. This little incident tipped me off and gave me an idea that this may be a good way to check if my draw is set properly for me and my shooting style.
Now I know nothing about your bow and it's cam/cable system. But do you have a Y cable off the top limb that can you can twist/untwist to perhaps fix a leaning cam ? Have you looked at your cams ?
Usually if something is wrong in arrow flight, I can pick it up at 30 yards on a walk back. 40 just further convinces me, but most of the time it'll show up at 30 enough to tell me which way I need to go with the rest.
By the way.......what rest are you shooting ? Has something gone wrong there ?...... - fall away cord stretched, spring broke etc...I've had stretched drop-away cord drive me nuts for a week. That cord does stretch...
And are you right handed ?
I though you didn't believe in paper tuning ??
You shouldn't have a tear that bad. I can't see a fixed blade head flying well with that kinda tear. Did you by chance shoot it through paper before ? I think weak arrow reaction is out of the question with those arrows. The Axis shafts I've played with the past few years seem to be pretty tolerant of draw weight.
This might sound picky, but about 3 weeks ago I was playing with my bow, and twisting/untwisting the string to get my peep to turn in. Obviously, that changes the draw length slightly........Not a bunch, but enough so that if I went to far in either direction, I'd blow a tear through the paper that was similar to your's if the length was to short, or to long. Sounds crazy huh? But that was the case. Timing was otherwise dead on. This wasen't a case of string stretch, just me getting the peep set and paper tuning at the same time. I got a bullet hole with it, then walked-back and it was perfect. This little incident tipped me off and gave me an idea that this may be a good way to check if my draw is set properly for me and my shooting style.
Now I know nothing about your bow and it's cam/cable system. But do you have a Y cable off the top limb that can you can twist/untwist to perhaps fix a leaning cam ? Have you looked at your cams ?
Usually if something is wrong in arrow flight, I can pick it up at 30 yards on a walk back. 40 just further convinces me, but most of the time it'll show up at 30 enough to tell me which way I need to go with the rest.
By the way.......what rest are you shooting ? Has something gone wrong there ?...... - fall away cord stretched, spring broke etc...I've had stretched drop-away cord drive me nuts for a week. That cord does stretch...
And are you right handed ?
Thanks for the insights Mikey. No, I don't really believe in paper tuning. but shooting Tracer nocks... I can see the thing kicking left anyway.... all the paper did was show me just how much and at what distance the arrow corrected itself (about 9 yards).
As to your follow up questions, yes I'm right handed.
The Iron Mace has the same cam system as a bowtech binary cam bow, only its called a Trinary on a High Country.
I'm shooting a QAD Pro LD. No signs of fletching contact.
Today at work, I had the boss look at it while I drew it and vice versa. We agreed that the top cam was coming over a bit faster than the bottom. Took two twists out and it looked to stablize a bit. It also seemed that my nock point was low... I don't know how that happened, but I moved that up too. Rechecked the center shot and basically went back to square one. Went up and shot it.... exact same crap.... still kicking left.
I'm vexed.... I'm about ready to ground tune the thing.
10-14-2008, 06:07 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: So whats the deal here?
Could something be wrong with your release? Not you, but the actual release. I use a double jawed release and I imagine if one of the jaws was sticking it may have a bad effect on my shot. Maybe you could even try a different release if you have one handy or wait til you get back to work.
10-14-2008, 06:45 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: So whats the deal here?
ORIGINAL: brucelanthier
Could something be wrong with your release? Not you, but the actual release. I use a double jawed release and I imagine if one of the jaws was sticking it may have a bad effect on my shot. Maybe you could even try a different release if you have one handy or wait til you get back to work.
Could something be wrong with your release? Not you, but the actual release. I use a double jawed release and I imagine if one of the jaws was sticking it may have a bad effect on my shot. Maybe you could even try a different release if you have one handy or wait til you get back to work.
Hell it could be anything. I punched the release and failed to follow through a few times this evening trying to watch the arrow to see if whatever I tried netted any result. The times I did get a good shot off it didn't seem any different.
To put it in perspective, I only shot at 20 yards today. I shot at a clean vegas 3 spot target, and was consistantly hitting the 9, 10 and x rings..... infact, I'd shoot three ends of two arrows each and have clover leaf holes... I mean I was nailing what I was shooting at.... but I can see the damn arrow kicking hard left... and I know when I put broadheads on that its going to get all snotty on me. The thing was shooting like a lazer two weeks ago.... now its shooting like a potato gun.
10-14-2008, 07:05 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: masontown pa USA
Posts: 851
RE: So whats the deal here?
My QAD threw fits for me this year to man. I don't know what the deal was. I took it off,and threw on my old Bodoodle Pro Lite and haven't had an issue since. I would almost try a new rest if you can change it out and shoot it without ruining hunting time. I'd almost bet something isn't working correctly there. If the bow is timed properly, tiller is on, and the centershot is on, either the rest is muffing the shot, or LOL...you're just plain screwing it up yourself !
Maybe you can try that "french tuning" deal where you hang a string vertically from a target and shoot at it at 5 and 10 yards. I'm not sure what the procedure is, but it's basially the same as walk-back....but you dont' need 40-60 yards to do it. I haven't read to much about it here, but there are some links on archerytalk describing it.
Did you shoot closer than 9 yards ? Like 6 feet or so? I may of mis read your statement about that...
I can't remember(as a right handed shooter) the last time I dealt with a bad tail-left tear in paper. If I did, it was usually something amiss in the cables causing cam lean.
AND..check your nocks. I had a lighted nock 2 years ago that flat out wouldn't shoot for crap. I switched it out for an original easton nock, and walla.....back to normal. Never touched 'em again. In fact, I change nocks rather often. For indoor spot season, I shoot 3-4 nites a week, I'll junk them after 2 or 3 weeks and install new ones.
But all in all, if you can walk it back somehow, and shoot some broadheads and get them to group, it's probably not a huge deal then. If that arrow is stabalized at 9 yards, and flying well after that..............how many deer do you shoot inside 9 yards ? Probably not as many as you do from 15-25 right ?
Maybe you can try that "french tuning" deal where you hang a string vertically from a target and shoot at it at 5 and 10 yards. I'm not sure what the procedure is, but it's basially the same as walk-back....but you dont' need 40-60 yards to do it. I haven't read to much about it here, but there are some links on archerytalk describing it.
Did you shoot closer than 9 yards ? Like 6 feet or so? I may of mis read your statement about that...
I can't remember(as a right handed shooter) the last time I dealt with a bad tail-left tear in paper. If I did, it was usually something amiss in the cables causing cam lean.
AND..check your nocks. I had a lighted nock 2 years ago that flat out wouldn't shoot for crap. I switched it out for an original easton nock, and walla.....back to normal. Never touched 'em again. In fact, I change nocks rather often. For indoor spot season, I shoot 3-4 nites a week, I'll junk them after 2 or 3 weeks and install new ones.
But all in all, if you can walk it back somehow, and shoot some broadheads and get them to group, it's probably not a huge deal then. If that arrow is stabalized at 9 yards, and flying well after that..............how many deer do you shoot inside 9 yards ? Probably not as many as you do from 15-25 right ?
10-14-2008, 08:47 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: So whats the deal here?
ORIGINAL: Mikey S.
My QAD threw fits for me this year to man. I don't know what the deal was. I took it off, and threw on my old Bodoodle Pro Lite and haven't had an issue since. I would almost try a new rest if you can change it out and shoot it without ruining hunting time. I'd almost bet something isn't working correctly there. If the bow is timed properly, tiller is on, and the centershot is on, either the rest is muffing the shot, or LOL...you're just plain screwing it up yourself !
My QAD threw fits for me this year to man. I don't know what the deal was. I took it off, and threw on my old Bodoodle Pro Lite and haven't had an issue since. I would almost try a new rest if you can change it out and shoot it without ruining hunting time. I'd almost bet something isn't working correctly there. If the bow is timed properly, tiller is on, and the centershot is on, either the rest is muffing the shot, or LOL...you're just plain screwing it up yourself !
Did you shoot closer than 9 yards ? Like 6 feet or so? I may of mis read your statement about that...
I can't remember(as a right handed shooter) the last time I dealt with a bad tail-left tear in paper. If I did, it was usually something amiss in the cables causing cam lean.
AND..check your nocks. I had a lighted nock 2 years ago that flat out wouldn't shoot for crap. I switched it out for an original easton nock, and walla.....back to normal. Never touched 'em again. In fact, I change nocks rather often. For indoor spot season, I shoot 3-4 nites a week, I'll junk them after 2 or 3 weeks and install new ones.
The one thing that I did do a bit differently was crest my arrows really heavy.... I used a right fair bit of paint. And I didn't use any helical on my Twisters either... just a bit of right offset. I thought that might of had something to do with it too. I don't advocate using helical as a bandaid... but I normally do have a fair piece of it on my arrows.
But all in all, if you can walk it back somehow, and shoot some broadheads and get them to group, it's probably not a huge deal then. If that arrow is stabalized at 9 yards, and flying well after that..............how many deer do you shoot inside 9 yards ? Probably not as many as you do from 15-25 right ?
10-14-2008, 09:21 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: masontown pa USA
Posts: 851
RE: So whats the deal here?
Man I don't know SwampCollie. You sound like you've covered all the possibilities. Maybe you can build 1 or 2 shafts with no cresting, a regular X nock, and try it. But I've never seen cresting, or a lighted nock cause that much of a disturbance in arrow flight........but then again I haven't played with them that much to draw any concrete conclusions.
I didn't want to sound like I think shooting crooked flying arrows at deer in the woods is my thing, because that's just not right. But I did own a hoyt xtec couple years ago that behaved similarly. No matter what I did, I popped a 1.5" tear left tear in paper at 6 to 10 feet. At 25-30 feet, it was a perfect tear...... it did this with any arrow/point combination I threw atit for 2 years. In all honesty, it shot like a demon with broadheads out to 50 yards, and grouped my muzzy's right with my field points. It was the most comfortable I've everbeen with a hunting bow once I got over the paper tear "problem". So I ran with it, and enjoyed taking 10 deer with it in 2 seasons, anywhere from 10 yards out to 55. None went over 100yards.
I'mcurious to know what had happened since you said it shot straight before. My bow did that from the beginning, so it's not really a comparable scenario. I hope you figure out, and I'd like to hear from ya if you do. If I think of anything else, I'll post it.
Later man
Mike
I didn't want to sound like I think shooting crooked flying arrows at deer in the woods is my thing, because that's just not right. But I did own a hoyt xtec couple years ago that behaved similarly. No matter what I did, I popped a 1.5" tear left tear in paper at 6 to 10 feet. At 25-30 feet, it was a perfect tear...... it did this with any arrow/point combination I threw atit for 2 years. In all honesty, it shot like a demon with broadheads out to 50 yards, and grouped my muzzy's right with my field points. It was the most comfortable I've everbeen with a hunting bow once I got over the paper tear "problem". So I ran with it, and enjoyed taking 10 deer with it in 2 seasons, anywhere from 10 yards out to 55. None went over 100yards.
I'mcurious to know what had happened since you said it shot straight before. My bow did that from the beginning, so it's not really a comparable scenario. I hope you figure out, and I'd like to hear from ya if you do. If I think of anything else, I'll post it.
Later man
Mike
10-14-2008, 10:39 PM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 9,085
RE: So whats the deal here?
probably not the PROPER thing to do, but i would throw a fixed head on and try broadhead tuning....
ive found that if i can get my muzzys to shoot with my FPs, any other tuning method will show it tuned....even group tuning, walk backs, bare shaft etc...did it a few weeks ago...i THOUGHT i had perfect flight..muzzys were VERY finicky...sometimes right on...but very inconsistant...flight looked good with BHs and FPs...but i went against everything i knew and started moving the rest a smidge...mind you, this is the DAY before the season!...within a few rounds and adjustments, i hit the "sweet spot" what i thought looked like perfect flight, wasnt. when i hit that "sweet spot" it looked like i gained 50fps lol....thats why im a believer in the broadhead tune...
also, have someone else shoot it...just to rule yourself outta the equation...maybe its a torque after the shot or something that may be going un-noticed....i had that issue for a while...wasnt panic or punching...just not following through...as soon as the release was tripped, i was throwing the shot...it was UGLY...took alot of time and effort to get it worked out...just something to think about....
ive found that if i can get my muzzys to shoot with my FPs, any other tuning method will show it tuned....even group tuning, walk backs, bare shaft etc...did it a few weeks ago...i THOUGHT i had perfect flight..muzzys were VERY finicky...sometimes right on...but very inconsistant...flight looked good with BHs and FPs...but i went against everything i knew and started moving the rest a smidge...mind you, this is the DAY before the season!...within a few rounds and adjustments, i hit the "sweet spot" what i thought looked like perfect flight, wasnt. when i hit that "sweet spot" it looked like i gained 50fps lol....thats why im a believer in the broadhead tune...
also, have someone else shoot it...just to rule yourself outta the equation...maybe its a torque after the shot or something that may be going un-noticed....i had that issue for a while...wasnt panic or punching...just not following through...as soon as the release was tripped, i was throwing the shot...it was UGLY...took alot of time and effort to get it worked out...just something to think about....