Uh...... I hate to tell you your dogs might have been biting something if I was there but it wouldn't have fur on it.

Not trying nor do I have to prove a thing to anyone. The guy that has the cams I'm very good friends with and he runs cams probably 10 months of the year. I've seen many pics of dogs from his cams. The point is they're still running and anyone that can't or doesn't believe it is in denial BIG time. I'll have proof but it might not be the kind one wants to post on a public forum. Like I keep saying lots are over this BS and they've had enough.

Hey guys, come on now!! You know that dogs can't read signs!! The only picture worth having would be one of the VDGIFtaking bribes from the VHDA. Now that one would be worth it's weight in gold!! Keep the cameras rollin, you might get one of a game warden picking up his dogs!!

Not only can't they read, they can't talk either. No way one that gets away can tell what got the others.

Big~Bird,

I know this pi$$es you off BUT it would be much better to get a large live trap & catch these dogs.
The owner can replace the dogs and chances are they would not even get the point,But a few hunting out of season tickets probably would take care of the problem. Especially with trailcam pictures to show it's no fox!

___________________
huntwalkers

JUST because they have a hound dog, That don't make them a Houndsman!

Just curious, but what does the bear bait reference have to do with the dog/deer hunting issues?

The dog chasing laws put the burden of proving a criminal act has taken place on the admission of the offender. All the dog owner has to say is they're chasing foxes and it's over. You can't prove a dog is a fox hound or a deer hound regardless of what it's chasing. I know, you know, the game warden knows and the dog owner knows. You have to prove it in court and that's impossible based on the current law. Who is going to admit it and get a ticket? If they're low enough and see nothing wrong with running out of season they're not going to come clean in court.

The law has to be changed. It's the only one where the criminal can proclaim his innocence and get away with it. It's not based on evidence or facts, but solely on the offenders word.

The animal control can't set traps for legal hunting can they? On the word of the owner they're chasing foxes and that makes them 100% legal. There is nothing anyone can do with the law as it's currently written. I've already gone down this road 2 years ago. So we're now onto solving it one dog at a time. The great majority of rural counties do not even have running at large laws.

Well I have been following the posts on this matter on a number of boards since the begining now. I have also kept to myself until now as well.

I will start off by saying that a few of you on here know me.. rick and butch, maybe not that well but rick I have pet personally and talked to on the phone a few times as well.. and butch.. we have spoken on the phone once (and it is my fault for not calling him back [&o]as there seems to never be enough time in the day lol) and from being on the boards and talking and yes disagreeing and working through them over the years. I would hope that either one of these guys would attest to my basic character.

At this time I feel the need to speak up....

Bigg~BirdVA... I am not trying to start a fight by anymeans.. I am looking to have a open minded discussion here... I understand at your frustrations with your experiences and situation. I am a big still hunter... I carry a bow from september through march (gotta love the urban archery season!!) I usually use a bow during black powder as well on 90% of the occasions just because I love it... nothing like hearing THWACK on a frosty morning or at sunset. I also spend alot of time in the off season preparing for season.. it seems like a second full time job sometimes... I am working food plots.. scouting and trying to pick out certain bucks that are my goal for the upcoming year, placing stands etc...I am not saying that I am more of a avid sportmsen or spend any more time in the woods preparing that everyone else, not even close to that I know a few guys who put me to shame lol.

Anyway Like I was saying after reading your posts I know where you are coming from and understand your anger. I do however have a real big problem with you taking matters into your own hands and dispatching your own brand of in woods out of sight out of mind justice that you basically come right out and say in your posts.

Let me pose a question to you... based on this and your past posts on other forums you have a problem with anyone breaking any laws (rightfully so as laws are in place for a reason and not to be broken)Your basic thoughts are that anyone that is violating a game, state or county law is nothing but trash correct..(basically to sum it up)? Then what makes you and your actions any different.. the activities you refer to are indeed 100% illegal and are possibly felonly actions. SO where does that make you anyless of a piece of trash(summing it up)for participating in illegal activities no matter what the origin or the actions that led to the activities were (i.e running deer on purpose outside of season etc..) Now mind you I am for self preservation and the protection of family in friends when the need arises but what you are refering to are far from that.. I also am not going to buy that they were in self defense or fear for your saftey because you have already set a clear precedent on a public forum of the basis for your actions.

Like I said I am not picking on you and trying to fight. I just would like some answers as to your thought process and your thoughts on this..

I am also asking this because I had a dog get loose yesterday morning from my house.. he was only gone for a few minutes when I heard him start to bark and then continue out of my hearing.. I looked around for him for a few horus before I had to be to work. I also called the county animal control and adivsed them of the situation and the area so that if anyone reported the dog they could let me know (and yes he had a collar with my name and two contact numbers on). As luck would have it as I was nearing home yesterday evening the animal control called and said they had loacted my dog.. and gave me the number to the person who had him. He was over in the state park (Caledon) and had been seen once earlierin the day running a deer. However a few hours later a hiker came upon him wandering down a hiking trail and he just followed her and her dog back to the visitor center where they held him until I got there (within 25 minutes of him being detained). Based on this I have another question for you... say this event had happened and you happened to be on a piece of property doing whatever that he crossed on his jounrney. Would it be right to dispatch your justice to this dog for doing what comes naturally, bearing in mind that he was in no way shape orform turned loose on purpose... he just simply performed a jail break and the result of that brought him across your path.. I know that you have no way of knowing this was this case when you are there and hear him coming toward you I am not saying you do.. my point is that how is that fair to the dog, a muched loved member of my family and to me and my family that you take such actions upon yourself. I am also not trying to compare apples to oranges either I know that the chances of a whole pack of dgs getting out at one time are slime but your picture you show three dogs. I have had the misfortune of haveing 5 dogs get out of a poorly made 25x40 pen one time, so there is always a remote possibility there. I know in most of your run-ins that that is not the case, however how is it still fair to the dog to be punsihed for what comes nautually to it. I have seen house pets.. dogs that have never been hunting a day in their life take off after all kinds of game.. including deer (which happen to leave one of the strongest scent trails).

JUst take a minute to think before you respond to this. I mean if you are taking actions that are illegal and that puts you inthe group of trash or slob hunters then why should anyone listen and take to heart your valid complaints..

I will totally agree that there are those that take advantage of the laws and bend them to fit their own agenda and there are those that down right break it. These people are on both sides here.. still hunters and houndsmen. I also fully agree that there should be some changes made and a little of give and take on both sides as well.. I think that while it will never be a case of everyone being 100% happy that a reasonable middle ground can be reached to satisfy both sides so that hunting and heritagein ALL of its forms remains alive and well in our great state, and yes this would include the right to be able to hunt on SUNDAY!!!!! If one chooses to do so then great if one chooses not to participate then that is great as well I do not feel that either side should be put down for their own individual choice, the same goes with the means in one wishes to spend their time outdoors.

Sorry this is so long winded...

Justin

I guess I should also clarify that I am not only a huge still hunter, I am also a houndsmen so I have a iron in both sides of this fire.

I love doing both and I am very active in both. I currently have 19 dogs at my house including a litter of puppies. I also spend moremoney on each one of my dogs than your average pet owner does. They get Meds (wormer etc) once a month plus if needed anytime in between. I spend a ungoldy amount of money on dog food because I am not wanting to feed them something cheap for me rather I feed them what is best for them and fits their needs best. Meaning I have some dogs on different style foods becuase they do better on it etc..

But I agree that there are a number of bad apples out there that are causing problems for alot of people and I would like to see that stop as well as the next man, however I dont feel that ending it is really necassary. I feel that it can be done with some simple law changes and alot more help with enforcing (legally) those laws.

Justin

Justin,
I can not speak for Bird or anyone other than myself for that matter. But after watching this debate and having far too many hunts screwed up by hounds out of season, I too am fed up! You're right in that if you choose an illegal means of dealing with the hounds you are no better than the hound hunters who caused the problem. And in your case it sounds like you are one of the hound hunter/owners who takes great care of their pack and I would bet your hounds rarely cause an issue for others? It's like everything else in life, good folks or actions are not seen or remembered near as much a bad action. Those bad hound hunters have killed it for many good ones. Then when a deer hound hunter jumps in screaming there is no problem or we don't need any more laws on this it only fuels the anger and folks like Bird make it clear... They ain't taken it no more! I think if we really look into what being said here, what it is really saying is.. "If the hound hunters don't fix it and fix it now then folks are willing to stoop and fix it by whatever means they see fit.." They feel like their rights have been violated and they are at wits end. That doesn't make it right but I can assure you it will have an impact of the problem..

I would hope folks like you never have a dog cause an issue with another hunter. Something tells me you would not let that occur and if it did occur you would do everything in your power to prevent it in the future. So Justin, talk with your Deer Hound Owner friends and do whatever you can to make sure hounds don't run out of season, and that they stay on your property. In turn maybe non-hound hunters will take a deep breath and try to find better ways to work this issue out? I can promise that if folks keep denying (not that you have) that there is a problem it's only going to get worst.

Maybe it's too late? Maybe the damage has been donelets hope not.