mr yox made the statement about deer farmed deer. But in truth in the wild the same 1 male is physically able to service most the females in his home range, that is 1 of the reasons you see bucks traveling outside their normal homerange during the rut, looking for receptive does

Nope, Mr Yox was making that comment about wild deer. In my opinion, wild bucks breed every doe they can get to stand, but remember, with as many bucks out there, and all does cycling at about the same time, its just not possible for one buck to catch them all. Thats why overpopulated areas see a decrease in trophy potential. The reason why they so often travel outside their normal range is looking for those first few receptive does before they all come into cycle. Once a doe is in heat, a buck very likely will stand by her and breed her as many times as she will stand for him. What do you suppose is happening to all the other receptive does at that time, while he has her sequestered, seperated from the herd, to breed? Hes going from one to the next, but hes not going to service them all, and they wont cycle again for another 30 days.

In captivity we often give him X number of does to breed, but hes by himself with no bucks to run off, so he gets the job done a bit easier. I dont want to sound argumentative, just offer another opinion for you guys to consider.

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28 days and that is why you see trophy potential plummet. Lesser dominate bucks are breeding those other does while Monster Whitetail gene pool is staying with that doe.

IMHO that is one step in lowering deer numbers in Pa. Less doe being bred if you have less buck, while leaving fewer DNA positive bucks to breed with fewer offspring of those DNA positive doe.
Be it race horses,cows,hogs,emus,elk whatever all breeders know you are much more apt to produce a quality offspring by breeding supierior genetics. The same holds true in captivity or the wilds.
you wouldn't breed a donkey to a blue ribbon philly and produce a Triple Crown winner would you?

Im not sure what you are saying now, but Ill try. What Im saying is, too many deer makes for lesser quality deer. Dominant bucks breed, and of course, to some extent so do most of the other bucks. But the best does cycle and stand for the better buck, natural selection touches on this. The lesser bucks can still have the similar DNA as theyre most likely related to the dominant buck. Lower herd numbers just helps insure that the healthier better, and in theory, "trophy" bucks do the majority of the breeding. Antler restriction rules on the other hand, are just insuring that the buck, regardless of what potential he has, lives long enough to make an attempt to reach that potential. I believe they use antler restrictions simply because the average laymen hunter isnt able to field judge deer for age. Its difficult for most, especially in a hunting situation.

Bill: what I'm saying is in reply to some ..ok maybe just one Monsterwhitetail hunter...is that while he screams we don't need a deer behind every tree only big bucks so the horn hunters are happy an he can try selling hunts here in Pa too is:
you don't need a buck behind every tree either, there is no need for a 1:1 or a 1:2 or even a 1:10 ratio. you know as well as I, be it wild or captive a few bucks can easily breed nearly every doe in their homerange and those that aren't bred first go round are 90% sure to be bred next cycle along with most every 6 mth fawn that comes in heat in January too.

Ok, gotcha. Being new to this site, I havent quite gotten used to how some of you guys post (talk) just yet. I didnt really think we were disagreeing!

This argument will always come down to those who want quantity and to those out there who would rather sacrifice numbers for quality. heck in my opinion Id shoot a doe over any button buck, any day, anywhere. Its not even debateable. In fact, anyplace Id hunt that the owner has any clue about management would want it that way, too!

Bill I see you're a "fawn" but apparently you either don't hunt in Pa or have your own private places to hunt in Pa.
Cause here in Pa mainstream hunters are so strapped for a place to hunt they don't have the priveledge of finding landowners whom prefer you to shoot a doe over a BB. Heck when they get on public land it's darn near any deer they can get a shot at that is reduced to bag bologna .
glad to have you on the board, Rone

Wing, Im one state over, in NY. Its the same set up here, only the guys who do allow permission are all starting to lease the land, something we all saw coming ten years ago. Many have different ways of doing what they feel is managing. Finding land to hunt is harder each season. Also, NY states DEC wants to really thin out the numbers, but because of so many areas being off-limits to hunting, theyre allowing hunters to literally scour the land they can hunt, to drastically lower numbers. It seems they use an average as a median for a deer count, rather than look at areas individually. The glory days of 90% success rates looks to be a thing of the past here. I still recall those seasons when it seemed more like 40% rates. Oh well, with less interest in hunting, and fewer deer, at least we will see some hogs...

Geez, sorry about that, I got on a roll, and off topic. I wouldnt be all that happy about the antler restriction rules that you have in PA. I know why they did it, but I just have a hard time telling folks that they cant shoot certain animals, straight across the board. I wish, maybe naively, that guys would soon graduate from that "Yep, I got MY buck" mentality and CHOOSE to hold out on a young buck. Let him go, not be told you have to. Theres too many scenarios out there. Just practicing some selective hunting in an area will reap rewards quickly. I dont believe you could ever truly manage a herd that big, with that many hunters participating, and be successful both in deer and in happy hunters. Too many variables.