DEC has it figured out!!
#115
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
Atlas, Don't know if anyone asked this. How much would your program cost to implement?
Atlas, Don't know if anyone asked this. How much would your program cost to implement?
I don't know Charlie........it seems to me if you have DEC officers out doing field checks at processors and counting tags for 8 hours a day.......why can't you have them stay in one location and count all the mailed in ones?? With a bar code scanner it shouldn't take an extremely long time. The 37 cents for a stamp can be absorbed by the hunters and they raise the price of licenses so often no one would even flinch at another buck or two.........especially if they were told it was to help better assess the herd.
Either way Charlie it won't happen. IMO the DEC is thrilled with the current system and would not even entertain changing it. They are very happy to have a vague system based on guesswork so they can continue to preach how high the deer numbers are even though most hunters in the field don't agree. It's like a safety net for them..........if their inaccuracy ever gets exposed on a large scale they can always fall back on the limits of the system and say "It is the best we can do at this time"
The DEC wants the deer population reduced.........period. The more deer killed every year the happier they......no matter what the consequences are in the future. Their is no doubt about that. Their motivation for this??? You decide for yourself.
#116
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
"I personnally know a dozen guys that don't call in there harvests on the DECALS system, and I am just 1 guy."
My apologies Atlasman. I took that as meaning you were 1 of the guys that doesn't call in his harvests.
But in all honesty sometimes we base to much on what we see, and too little of what we actually know. I'm no Mr. Know it all believe me. Like I said before I don't agree with everything the DEC does in this state. I don't just sit back, and except things for what they are. I contact my government officials, and DEC several times in the past fighting for what I believe is right. I'm also a member of several hunting organizations. I don't just write on this forum making complaints about others comments, and knowledge.
You did hit a nerve on law enforcement, because I'm employed in law enforcement. Just becasue all your dealings with ENCON may not have been as you expected, doesn't mean they are all bad. Think first of what they do. Unfortunately every basket does have a few bad apples, but that doesn't mean all are that way.
I also have a college education in Environmental Conservation( don't say it, another college boy), but that was 18yrs ago. I recall in those days the larger deer populations was a huge concern for environmental issues, and the carrying capacity of the land. Farming in this state is becoming harder, and harder. So we don't have the farms, and crops we had 20yrs ago, to help feed the herds in the winter. It also takes many yrs for the land to recover from over browsing. So I think the herd was in need of reducing, but at this point I believe some areas have been reduced too much. But the DEC themselves admit that on their website if you take the time to look!! The DEC did get behind the times some, and the DECALS system was a step in the right direction. The DEC also faces more adversity now then in yrs past. The anti hunter movement is stronger, insurance premiums have risen due in part to more car-deer accidents, farmers are complaining more of crop damage, becasue of higher costs to farm. Private hunting land has become much more difficult to obtain, due to everyones want of their own private piece, lawsuits, liabilities, and anti hunters.
So I don't think we can blame the DEC for everything involved in the deer population. Its much more difficult then that. Look at the WHOLE picture
My apologies Atlasman. I took that as meaning you were 1 of the guys that doesn't call in his harvests.
But in all honesty sometimes we base to much on what we see, and too little of what we actually know. I'm no Mr. Know it all believe me. Like I said before I don't agree with everything the DEC does in this state. I don't just sit back, and except things for what they are. I contact my government officials, and DEC several times in the past fighting for what I believe is right. I'm also a member of several hunting organizations. I don't just write on this forum making complaints about others comments, and knowledge.
You did hit a nerve on law enforcement, because I'm employed in law enforcement. Just becasue all your dealings with ENCON may not have been as you expected, doesn't mean they are all bad. Think first of what they do. Unfortunately every basket does have a few bad apples, but that doesn't mean all are that way.
I also have a college education in Environmental Conservation( don't say it, another college boy), but that was 18yrs ago. I recall in those days the larger deer populations was a huge concern for environmental issues, and the carrying capacity of the land. Farming in this state is becoming harder, and harder. So we don't have the farms, and crops we had 20yrs ago, to help feed the herds in the winter. It also takes many yrs for the land to recover from over browsing. So I think the herd was in need of reducing, but at this point I believe some areas have been reduced too much. But the DEC themselves admit that on their website if you take the time to look!! The DEC did get behind the times some, and the DECALS system was a step in the right direction. The DEC also faces more adversity now then in yrs past. The anti hunter movement is stronger, insurance premiums have risen due in part to more car-deer accidents, farmers are complaining more of crop damage, becasue of higher costs to farm. Private hunting land has become much more difficult to obtain, due to everyones want of their own private piece, lawsuits, liabilities, and anti hunters.
So I don't think we can blame the DEC for everything involved in the deer population. Its much more difficult then that. Look at the WHOLE picture
#118
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
So checking deer at processors is a waste of time and money?
Obviously the DEC is open to change this sysrem only went into effect two years ago, right. So they changed from a system they used for years.
Something tells me that's not a DEC officers responsibility. Do you have any proof that they sit around counting tags?
Obviously the DEC is open to change this sysrem only went into effect two years ago, right. So they changed from a system they used for years.
counting tags for 8 hours a day
#119
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
So checking deer at processors is a waste of time and money?
Obviously the DEC is open to change this sysrem only went into effect two years ago, right. So they changed from a system they used for years.
Something tells me that's not a DEC officers responsibility. Do you have any proof that they sit around counting tags?
So checking deer at processors is a waste of time and money?
Obviously the DEC is open to change this sysrem only went into effect two years ago, right. So they changed from a system they used for years.
counting tags for 8 hours a day
I think it is a waste of money if it is providing inaccurate data that in the end leads to false impressions of actual deer numbers.........this leads to too many tags being issued and even more depletion of a herd that is mistakenly or purposely presented as overflowing. That is a waste of more then time. For all we know the counting method may not even be the real problem........perhaps they know exactly what the deer herd is at and just keep telling everyone it is growing and growing so they buy more tags and kill even more deer.
Alloutdoors said previously that officers spend all day in processors counting and recording tag numbers to be checked against the call in list later on. Maybe he can clarify if that is true.
#120
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
ORIGINAL: alloutdoors
Poor atlas, I try to have some fun with you and immediately your back to calling me names. At least NYBH recognized it as humor, not sure he got it but at least he recognized it. I was starting to think he didn't have a sense of humor.
Poor atlas, I try to have some fun with you and immediately your back to calling me names. At least NYBH recognized it as humor, not sure he got it but at least he recognized it. I was starting to think he didn't have a sense of humor.
If you think NYBH was commending your comedy you really should look up sarcasm when you're done with hypocrisy
One quick thing, I make no claim to speak the opinions of the DEC. I am not even currently employed by them, just that I have been in the past. The only reason it even came up was that atlas wanted to know why I believe their numbers.
Atlas like I said, you can't just stop the processor checks and switch to tallying tags, because of the other data that is collected from the deer. I already mentioned what the big one was earlier but you seem to have failed to notice that...
As far as what I have done for the DEC in the past, it isn't any secret. I have posted quite a few of the things on this forum before. If you need to know that badly I'm sure you can find out for yourself.