DEC has it figured out!!
03-31-2004, 06:21 AM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,472
DEC has it figured out!!
You HAVE to be joking me!!!!!![:@][:@] What plantet are these people from?? I'm sure this will grow the herd back. I give up I'm moving.[:@]
Year-Round Deer Hunting Proposed
Last Update: 3/31/2004 6:57:29 AM
(Albany, NY) AP 03/31/04 -- A legislative proposal would allow year-round deer hunting on New York farmland to reduce crop damage from foraging deer.
A Cornell University study estimates that deer do some $58 million in damage annually to New York crops. Assemblyman Clifford Crouch says current state programs to shoot deer on farmland are not adequate to prevent significant losses caused by the animals.
According to the Cornell study, hay, alfalfa and grain crops are most susceptible to deer damage. The animals also damage nursery products and fruit trees. Farmers reported the worst damage on Long Island and in the lower Hudson Valley.
Michael Markarian of the Fund for Animals says many states are liberalizing hunting rules to try to reduce deer herds. But he says the efforts often backfire because deer respond by increasing their reproduction rate.
Markarian's group favors non-hunting means of keeping deer away from crops, such as fencing and repellants.
Year-Round Deer Hunting Proposed
Last Update: 3/31/2004 6:57:29 AM
(Albany, NY) AP 03/31/04 -- A legislative proposal would allow year-round deer hunting on New York farmland to reduce crop damage from foraging deer.
A Cornell University study estimates that deer do some $58 million in damage annually to New York crops. Assemblyman Clifford Crouch says current state programs to shoot deer on farmland are not adequate to prevent significant losses caused by the animals.
According to the Cornell study, hay, alfalfa and grain crops are most susceptible to deer damage. The animals also damage nursery products and fruit trees. Farmers reported the worst damage on Long Island and in the lower Hudson Valley.
Michael Markarian of the Fund for Animals says many states are liberalizing hunting rules to try to reduce deer herds. But he says the efforts often backfire because deer respond by increasing their reproduction rate.
Markarian's group favors non-hunting means of keeping deer away from crops, such as fencing and repellants.
03-31-2004, 11:29 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
ORIGINAL: alloutdoors
Do you really live in NY??? The deer herd here is certainly not in any need of "growing back".
Do you really live in NY??? The deer herd here is certainly not in any need of "growing back".
I do and I agree with him 100%.........there may be spots of dense populations still but on the whole the herd has been thinning for years now finally culminating in the current mess we find ourselves in today.
The DEC better start worrying a little more about the HUGE areas of land that are seeing less and less deer every year rather then a few dense areas of concentrated numbers.
Year round hunting?? As much as I would LOVE to hunt any time I wanted I find it absolutely laughable that anyone would even consider that at this point in time.
[:'(]
03-31-2004, 07:22 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
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RE: DEC has it figured out!!
NYB I have two words for you "Reading Comprehension". What you posted has absolutely zero to do with the DEC
Do you really live in NY??? The deer herd here is certainly not in any need of "growing back".
04-01-2004, 07:36 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
ORIGINAL: alloutdoors
And exactly what would that current mess be? The fact that the buck take was down by 20,000 this year? Do you have any idea how insignificant a number like 20,000 is when talking about the state as a whole??? The harvest was still above average.
And exactly what would that current mess be? The fact that the buck take was down by 20,000 this year? Do you have any idea how insignificant a number like 20,000 is when talking about the state as a whole??? The harvest was still above average.
I personally know over a dozen guys that don't call in their harvests on the DECALS system and I am just one guy!!!.........this is the system you are relying on for accurate reporting of your deer herd.
I prefer to go by what I see with my own eyes year after year for the last 17 years and what my dad and all his friends have seen for the last 40+.........a decrease in overall deer numbers. Sure it has fluctuated but remains in a downward spiral. You ask someone who used to be in the woods when you needed 5 guys just to get a "party" permit and they will tell you about the numbers our "herd" used to have. Groups of 20-30 deer were not uncommon sights........compare that with what you see today.
This has been coming for a long time...........it is only now starting to be noticed by more and more hunters and they are looking for recent scapegoats like winter and coyotes when the real answer is neither.
On top of that, the major reason for the lower buck take was likely the crappy weather that affected most of the state on opening day of gun season in the southern tier, and then again on Thanksgiving weekend.
)
Those two times are when the majority of guys get out into the woods. Bad luck weather wise on those dates is bound to impact the harvest.
Bottom line, it's really easy to be an armchair quarterback.
Why do you have so much confidence that the DEC is telling you the truth??.........other then they told you they are
04-01-2004, 10:24 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: DEC has it figured out!!
ORIGINAL: alloutdoors
I hesitate to tell you because I think you will then just ignore anything I have to say, but I have worked for the DEC off and on for the past four years.
I hesitate to tell you because I think you will then just ignore anything I have to say, but I have worked for the DEC off and on for the past four years.
Anyway, do you really think that we aren't aware that not all deer are called in??? Trust me, this is taken into account. It's quite simple actually. During deer season DEC employees spend a large amount of time at deer processors checking harvested deer. All the information is recorded and the deer are aged. Then all the tag numbers are checked against tags that were actually reported, this tells us the % of people who aren't reporting their tags.
Let's say 10,000 deer are looked checked at processors, of that number it is found that 9,000 were reported and 1,000 weren't. So, 10% of the deer being shot aren't being reported, and for every 9 deer that are called into DECALS, one more is assumed to go unreported and is added to the tally.
As far as what you are saying about seeing deer where you hunt over the last 17 years... habitat changes. As the habitat changes the deer move around.
Sorry but the DEC isn't concerned with making sure that you always see the same number of deer on whatever piece of land you happen to hunt, that just isn't realistic.
Now, if suddenly all the deer were disappearing from an entire WMU, that would be something that the DEC would act on.
Here's the thing, and try not to take this personally, every hunter thinks he's an expert on deer and knows exactly what should be done about managing them. It's a really arrogant position to have, and is quite offensive to those who actually went to school and earned a degree in the wildlife field, many of whom are also hunters I might add. Apparently all that money we spent on our education was a waste, we could have just climbed into a deer stand for a few years and then we would know all the secrets of the natural world.
Did you even notice that you followed your "arrogant position" statement with one of your own dismissing the value of decades of first hand experience in the woods as if it were meaningless because it didn't come from a book at a University?? You may want to watch that in the future as it really tarnishes your scoldings
Imagine if I showed up where you work and started telling you how you didn't know what the hell you were doing and how I was so much smarter than you, and how I could do your job so much better... would that piss you off? I think it would, and it should.
Your problem is being to quick with the "crackpot" label. You should try and listen first BEFORE dismissing people as idiots because they aren't wearing a ranger patch.
The majority of people at the DEC are well educated professionals who have worked hard to get where they are and they know what they are doing.
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Of course none of this means anything because I'm "in" on the mass conspiracy by the DEC to do in hunters and ruin hunting.
One or two more years like this past year and the DEC will go public with something to ease the minds of all these guys not seeing deer like they used to.........they will have to because people are not gonna accept seasons like that for very long.
