DeerandbearhoG

Sterling forest, a state owned park, about 10k acres in orange county NY, has just announced it will be imposing AR (rack width past ears) in most of the park. The director told me today it was a result of 2/3 rds of its permit holders requesting it. I dont remember being asked or polled, and Ive held a permit every year since it was owned by the state. Last year QDMA came and did a seminar at the visitor center, looks like some of the SF higher ups drank the koolaid they were serving. I dont know what the logic is behind this move. Most of the folks who use this land are NYCarea residents, who just want to enjoy theyre limited time in the deer woods ,and Jersey residents who are fleeing theyre own state's ARS. Most just want to participate in the hunting season(AMEN!)and fill their tag, they dont care if the deer is a "quality deer" ,whatever that is. I guess SF feels more restrictions on newbie hunters is a good way to increase hunter participation..wrong! While I was handing in my application, I took a look at the hunter photo album, at the vistor center. lots of happy hunters w/ nice 125+++" bucks taken (gee howd they do that w/ out ARs) along w/ other hunters (mostly kids) who looked just as happy w/ their lesser "quality", basket rack bucks. Too bad the state will now determine what "quality" a buck has to be to put a smile on a new hunters face.

Good news is they opened up a bunch of new land for archery hunting.

rh160kid

Kind of weird its a spread restriction and not a points per one side restriction like most are. Im all for antler restrictions so i will keep my mouth shut as to whether its fair or not. I will say a youth should not be upheld to antler restrictions. That is wrong.

DeerandbearhoG

I respect other peoples views on ARs pro or con. I have no scientific proof of whether they work or not, I just dont feel the state should impose them on hunters. That said, Im glad you agree youths should not be restricted by ARs, but what about newbie adult hunters? With hunter participation decreasing every year, does it really make sense to create less opportunities for new/future hunters ?

rh160kid

Are there no other state land parcels that allow hunting anywhere near you? If a hunter wants to shoot any deer y cant they go to one of those areas. Nothing says they cant shoot any doe in the area with the AR either. The state issued an AR in my neighboring Ulster county a couple years ago. People cried the blues when it happened. Now 3yrs later those same people sing the praises of it because the quality bucks they have because of the AR. Sorry but im not gettin on NYS for experimenting with ARs on a couple public use areas. The vast majority are still non AR areas. If you wanna "brown its down" hunt go to one of those.

Steve863

The problem is that those in favor of AR's seem to be more vocal than the ones who are against it. That is what probably happened in Sterling Forest. You had a bunch of vocal hunters harping on this issue and they suckered the officials there into believing that AR's are a good thing. It will surely drive away some hunters who could care less about antlers and yet I highly doubt it will bring in any new trophy minded hunters either since it IS public land. So the AR minded hunters of Sterling Forest won big here in my opinion. Not only are they restricting everyone else from shooting any buck with 3" or longer antlers, they have also probably kicked off a good many people who now won't care to hunt there anymore. This will simply leave MORE deer for them with less hunting pressure. Yep, sure, the AR, QDM advocates really are more concerned about the deer than they are about antlersl!!

Steve863

Sure, and I know people in another unit in Sullivan county that also has AR's and where doe permits can only be gotten with preference points. Exactly how do you think they feel? And NO, they haven't been praising anything having to do with AR's. Very few are getting to see all these big bucks that were promised, and a good many can't even get doe tags there to shoot the doe they should be shooting instead of that spike buck. What good reason do these guys have to hunt deer at all??

rh160kid

Look-when sumthing gets mandated that you dont agree with and it happens in your area it sucks. You cant please everyone. I am not gettin into an AR debate with anyone here. Its not like theres not plenty of non Ar state areas to hunt. I cant speek for hunters in sullivan county- i dont know anyone that hunts there. I do however know many hunters in Ulster county. Guys who were against the AR when implemented are even saying they ARE seeing the bigger bucks there. I know one thing- in a couple years you can bet your ass i will be hunting Sterling Forest.

DeerandbearhoG

Much of the state owned land around here is not opened to hunting ,and even less is open to gun hunters. By imposing ARs, they are no doubt, decreasing oprtunities for newbie hunters and discourage hunter participation, I just dont see how thats a good thing. There is strength in #s ,even if we think others standards are too low. We need more people on our side, cause theres just not enough of us hardcore hunters to support our own right to hunt, or even justify future seasons. Also IMO big state land should be for the newbie or casual"brown its down" hunter .If anything, its the hardcore elite hunters who should be knocking on doors and finding better places to hunt.

As far as whether ARswork or not, I havent seen it personally, and I d love to see any statistics of how theyve actually increased the average score,age or"quality" of the bucks harvested in ulster co. I know that the NJ state land that borders sterling forest NY, has had ARs for over a decade, and I still see tons of spike and forkies running around there and dead on the roadside. If you look at NJ outstanding deer program(big buck record book) very few of the 160+ entries are from land that borders SF, or northern jersey areas in general ,so I dont see how imposing ARs on the NY side is going to make one bit of difference. Heck, if anything I'd wager the SF side holds bigger deer.

Steve863

In an isolated area with restricted access, AR's probably do produce better racks, but the responsibility of the DEC and any states game department is to control deer numbers and not the points on a bucks rack when it gets shot by a hunter. In the scheme of population control, it makes NO difference if the buck that is taken out is a spike or ten pointer. The AR advocates only want to make everyone believe that it does.

rh160kid

For the record i didnt say i had facts that it was working-as in harvest data #s, age of deer killed etc.. I only said those that i speak to that hunt there(ulster county) have said they are seeing more racked bucks. ARs have big time flaws-theres no doubt. Just cuz you shoot a deer that qualifies under a certain AR still doesnt mean that you are not killing a 1.5yr old or 2.5yr old buck. I have seen 1.5yr old bucks with 4pts on a side and see MANY 2.5s with the same. These are the bucks they are trying to protect but can be taken. Killing a buck by minimum age is the way to go for real management purposes but theres no way to do that for the general hunting population. Therefore ARs are considered the only other way to go to try to spare young bucks.