jcchartboy

This statement shows a lack of understanding of the critical factors that relate to antler growth in yearling deer.

Genetic potential to grow large racks at maturity has a very very low correlation at best to the antler growth of a yearling buck, (thus the enormous amount of spike and forkhorn yearling bucks that are present in NYS forrests). The primary contributer to large racks in yearling bucks is access to good nutrition....something most free ranging deer in NY lack. That means that spike and forkhorn yearling are not the genetic "rejects" of the population, nor are the rare six and eight point yearlings neccesarily the genetic "stars" of the gene pool....Given the opportunity to grow toward maturity both are equally likely to produce racks at maturity of relatively comparable size. Add to these facts that the presence of increased numbers of 2.5 yr and older bucks will substantially decrease the pressure on all "basket racked" yearlings including the rarer six and eight pointers and one can see that claims of the potential to alter the gene pool in a free ranging population of whitetails in an uncontrolled public hunt is sensationalism at its best and in reality just a claim lacking in substantial scientific evidence or whitetail growth charectoristics.

JC

rh160kid

i will repeat what i said before...The only real way to ensure the younger bucks walk is employing an age restriction-not an antler restriction. Do you ever see any of the guys on tv talk about an AR on their farm? no. they harvest their deer by age. Usually on those shows its a 4.5yr old or older. Thats how they ensure they are shooting mature animals. That being said there is no way a state can mandate a law that requires a person to shoot a buck after a certain age. i would guess the majority of hunters in NY dont know the difference between a 1.5 and 2.5 yr old or better yet a 2.5 to a 3.5yr old. Then on top of that to expect that hunter will take the time in the woods to age judge his target before pulling the trigger!! c'mon-no way. Therefore the state trys to use something else to protect the younger bucks, an AR. Any idiot can see whether a buck passes or fails the AR. The state uses general logic that by making people pass on smaller rack bucks alot of younger deer are getting spared. To an extent this is true. But the bucks that should be gettin protected sometimes qualify as an AR shooter. NOT GOOD-but what really can you do? Increase the AR to 4pts per side or a 16'' spread. This would help but it will never happen. They use a general 4pt per side or 13'' spread in most cases in which they hope to protect as many yearling bucks as possible. Its not a perfect system but its really all they can do on such a large scale with hunters uneducated in deer aging-thats the bottom line here. Like it or not ARs are part of hunting now and i suspect will increase as time goes on. The system has flaws-no doubt. Until average hunters can identify a deer in the woods as a certain age this is the way it goes. If you are for ARs great-if not fine too. Everyone has the right to voice what they want. Sometimes it doesnt go your way-period!!

rh160kid

Very well stated-nutrition or lack there of is the big reason for spikes and 4pts not genetic inferiorism. i work on a farm where we raise deer. We use to do alot of wild deer trapping in urban areas(before CWD transport restrictions). Countless times we caught spikes and when brought to our farm and given maximum nutrition the next year they were 2.5yr olds that alot of hunters around here would consider a trophy!! 8pters with 18-19'' spreads. Nutrition is the key.

mlo31351270

I like this idea.

bluebird2

If you guys from NY are interested in seeing what ARs produced in one part of of PA, in the area of ANF, here is the link to the annual report for the Kinzua Quality Deer Coop.

http://www.kqdc.com/Annual%20Report%...mendations.pdf

The information on antler size is provided starting on page 59. Note, the herd in KQDC was reduced by 60% and harvests decreased proportionately. Also, the data is only for the deer harvested , so it does not represent the average rack size for all 2.5+ buck.

DeerandbearhoG

You can keep calling every thing I say a "red herring" if you want, but w/ all due respect, your arguments dont seem to be based on any sort of logic. Do you actually expect me to believe, that hunters who shoot yearlings, really dont agree w/ their own actions of shooting them, they just do it cause they think thats the best they can get? Co mon. Anyone who's been to the SF visitor center, can see the photo albums ,filled w/ 120" -160"+ bucks and know theres opportunities to kill some dandys in the park, if you choose to hold out. Did it ever occur to you that mabye, these hunters are shooting spikes and forks .....BECAUSE THEY WANT TO?!?!? I think the AR crowd needs to realize, alot of hunters just wanna shoot a deer ,any deer, bring home some meat, spend time in the woods, and have some fun. whats wrong w/ that? I'd also love to know, how many of you AR supporters, killed a big buck for your 1st? Chances are it was a yearling, or buck that would not be legal under many ARs, but you probably were plenty content to kill that buck at the time,werent you? Now you want to take that away from those who are coming up behind you, so you show you're a more elite hunter than another. A bit hypocritical IMO.

rh160kid

good point-i think its been established youths are not under AR rules. I was a kid when i shot my first buck so an AR wouldnt have effected me then. Where that leaves the beginning hunter whos not a youth-i dont know. He would have to go somewhere wher there wasnt an AR. Again you guys are making it out that NYS implemented this AR in every public hunting area!!! if they dont like the rules go to a different area. I want to shoot big bucks-therefore i drive 15hrs to go hunt Illinois during bow season. Dont want to hunt an AR area go elsewhere. what else can i say.

jimbodwb

Your entire statement is about growing larger racks. The average weekend warrior doesn't care about a large rack. I don't care about a large rack. I love being out in nature and the overall experience of hunting. If the buck I see has at least 1 point 3" or bigger, I am allowed to shoot it in NYS. If NYS starts to implement AR's in certain areas, they will most likely continue this throughout the state. It is not their jobs to produce bigger racks for trophy hunters, it is their job to control the population of the deer. A spike 1.5 yo is just as important to get rid of as a 10 point 5.5 yo. Taking either one of these out of the herd helps manage the herd to be healthier. The state should not be involved in trophy hunting. If someone wants an older bigger racked buck then get some land and manage it the way they want. Don't take my right to enjoy my experience in the woods away. I am nowhere near SF and this does not affect me right now but if the state is allowed to do this here then it is just a matter of time before they do it everywhere.

rh160kid

[QUOTE][The state should not be involved in trophy hunting. If someone wants an older bigger racked buck then get some land and manage it the way they want. Don't take my right to enjoy my experience in the woods away. /QUOTE]That is your oppinion and you have the right to voice it-that doesnt mean you are right. And so for those that support ARs.If you want to shoot any deer you want maybe you will have to go find your own area. you say dont take your rights away-what about the rights of those who want ARs. Their rights dont matter? NYS has no right to experiment because you dont like it?

jimbodwb

You are absolutely correct, they have the right to shoot a big racked buck. But there is no need for AR's to be able to shoot a big racked buck. All they need to do is put in the time to locate and shoot this buck. If AR's are in place then I do not have the right to shoot the buck I might want to shoot. My right is taken away if AR's are in place but their right is not taken away if AR's are not in place. I have heard countless arguments about AR's and they are all about bigger racks. I have never heard or seen any proof about how AR's help manage the size of a herd, only the size of the racks.