NYS public hunting land goes AR.
09-12-2009, 06:51 PM
#51
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 549
You are absolutely correct, they have the right to shoot a big racked buck. But there is no need for AR's to be able to shoot a big racked buck. All they need to do is put in the time to locate and shoot this buck. If AR's are in place then I do not have the right to shoot the buck I might want to shoot. My right is taken away if AR's are in place but their right is not taken away if AR's are not in place. I have heard countless arguments about AR's and they are all about bigger racks. I have never heard or seen any proof about how AR's help manage the size of a herd, only the size of the racks.
09-13-2009, 07:49 AM
#52
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central NY
Posts: 67
If you are shooting him as a spike how am i suppose to see him as a 4.5 yr old. I get it-we get what slips by you or whats left when you are done. Yearling bucks are the stupidest deer in the woods-you want meat and want to control the heard shoot does!! And how many times in this thread does it need to be said-ARs are meant to increase the age class of bucks in the heard..period. This thread is giving me a headache anymore. No one even implemented an AR where you are yet and you are bitching about it like something was taken away from you.
09-13-2009, 01:48 PM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Yearling bucks are the stupidest deer in the woods-you want meat and want to control the heard shoot does!! And how many times in this thread does it need to be said-ARs are meant to increase the age class of bucks in the heard..period.
ARs are suppose to increase the average age of the buck herd in order to improve the breeding ecology, breeding rates and reduce late breeding. In PA breeding rates decreased by 5% and the breeding window didn't change, so ARs failed to produce the predicted results and we aren't harvesting any more 2.5 buck than we did in the very first year of ARs.
09-14-2009, 07:00 AM
#54
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 549
I apologize if I have upset you. That was never my intention. I appreciate someone like you who has logical insight as to what you believe in. We have different views on this topic but that is what make this interesting to me. I never said you were incorrect, I just stated my views on this. Everyone has the right to have their own opinion and this time ours clashed. When it came to the price increase of our license I believe we agreed on that. You are right that no one has implement an AR near me but if it is allowed to happen somewhere in the state then it could possibly happen near me in the future. In the area I grew up hunting, the deer population was low and we could not shoot a doe. All we had were whatever buck we would see. I have no problem taking a doe. I just also have no problem taking a buck of whatever size. I look forward to discussing other topics with you in the future. I will do my best not to upset you next time.
When PA hunters passed on buck and shot more doe the buck harvest decreased by 46% from 2001 to 2007. ARs shift the hunting pressure from the 1.5 buck to the 2.5+ age class so how many 2.5 buck do you think survive to be come 4.5 buck.
ARs are suppose to increase the average age of the buck herd in order to improve the breeding ecology, breeding rates and reduce late breeding. In PA breeding rates decreased by 5% and the breeding window didn't change, so ARs failed to produce the predicted results and we aren't harvesting any more 2.5 buck than we did in the very first year of ARs.
ARs are suppose to increase the average age of the buck herd in order to improve the breeding ecology, breeding rates and reduce late breeding. In PA breeding rates decreased by 5% and the breeding window didn't change, so ARs failed to produce the predicted results and we aren't harvesting any more 2.5 buck than we did in the very first year of ARs.
09-14-2009, 12:14 PM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Interesting!! How long has the AR been in effect in that area? I would like to hear from someone who implements these ARs how long they need to be in effect before the intended results are seen.
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09-21-2009, 03:27 PM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,233
#2. Even if true, (which I do not believe it is) that statement is relatively meaningless to this discussion of AR's. The most glaring reason being the total number of all deer harvested in PA dropped enourmously during that time...so any discusion of the total number deer havested from any sub group of the population during the two different time periods is extremely misleading to say the least (Stated more clearly, of course one would initially expect less bucks to be harvested if the population dropped enourmously...and more importantly, the drop in the population was not a direct result of the AR's whatsoever but a specific attempt by the states game department to reduce the total population of the deer within the state with or without the implementation of AR's).
The relevant discussion here would be the total PERCENT of 2.5 yr old AND OLDER bucks currently being harvested to the total percent of 2.5yr and older bucks being harvested prior to AR's
I can tell you as a fact...The percent of 2.5 yr and older bucks being harvested after AR's have been put in place has absolutely skyrocketed over the paltry 20% or less rate that was in place prior to their implemention.
This is completely contra to what were trying to imply with your statement, regardless of whether it is even true.
JC
09-21-2009, 03:38 PM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,233
Most importantly...the primary goal that the state unquestionably was championing was improving breeding ecology...Something they have been extremely successful in with the average size and age of the breeding bucks increasing dramatically.
JC
09-21-2009, 03:42 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,233
MORE MATURE BUCKS NOW
According to Steve Trupe, a private wildlife management consultant in the Keystone State, "Mature bucks are making up a larger percentage of the overall deer herd than most imagine. The majority of my clients use trail-monitoring cameras to scout their herd, and numerous photos of true trophy-class bucks are showing up. Nearly all of these photos were taken under the cover of darkness.
"Typical of mature buck behavior, it would appear that the only time these bucks are up and moving about during the hunting seasons would be during the rut, ahead of storm fronts, or when pushed from cover by other hunters," Steve added. "My neighbor gave up deer hunting on the last Friday of the season because he had not seen a legal buck on his property during the days he hunted. He filled his feeder outside of his house on Saturday morning and within a few days no less than four different 8-pointers had been spotted at the feeder by the man and his wife."
Steve reasoned, "It just goes to show you that hunting mature bucks is far different from hunting 1 1/2-year-olds, and that is something that hunters in Pennsylvania are going to have to adjust to if they want to fill their tags."
According to Steve Trupe, a private wildlife management consultant in the Keystone State, "Mature bucks are making up a larger percentage of the overall deer herd than most imagine. The majority of my clients use trail-monitoring cameras to scout their herd, and numerous photos of true trophy-class bucks are showing up. Nearly all of these photos were taken under the cover of darkness.
"Typical of mature buck behavior, it would appear that the only time these bucks are up and moving about during the hunting seasons would be during the rut, ahead of storm fronts, or when pushed from cover by other hunters," Steve added. "My neighbor gave up deer hunting on the last Friday of the season because he had not seen a legal buck on his property during the days he hunted. He filled his feeder outside of his house on Saturday morning and within a few days no less than four different 8-pointers had been spotted at the feeder by the man and his wife."
Steve reasoned, "It just goes to show you that hunting mature bucks is far different from hunting 1 1/2-year-olds, and that is something that hunters in Pennsylvania are going to have to adjust to if they want to fill their tags."
JC
------------------
The Changing Face Of Pennsylvania Deer Hunting...
Much has happened in the Keystone State since antler restrictions were established in 2002. Although some hunters still resist the idea, the overall results have been extremely positive.
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...s/NAW_0907_10/
Last edited by jcchartboy; 09-21-2009 at 03:46 PM.
09-22-2009, 04:14 AM
#59
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
[QUOTE=j
Most importantly...the primary goal that the state unquestionably was championing was improving breeding ecology...Something they have been extremely successful in with the average size and age of the breeding bucks increasing dramatically.
JC[/QUOTE]
So are you telling us the younger bucks that are now protected through antler restrictions are not doing any breeding?? Whether a buck breeds with a doe when he is 1 1/2 years old or 3 1/2 years old makes absolutely NO difference. He will be passing on the same genetics no matter what age he is. This is all a bunch of mumbo jumbo that is trying to be sold, but the reality is that AR's do nothing but grow bucks a little bigger for those hunters who prefer to shoot a bigger racked buck over a smaller one. AR's don't make any difference to the herds health one little bit!
Most importantly...the primary goal that the state unquestionably was championing was improving breeding ecology...Something they have been extremely successful in with the average size and age of the breeding bucks increasing dramatically.
JC[/QUOTE]
So are you telling us the younger bucks that are now protected through antler restrictions are not doing any breeding?? Whether a buck breeds with a doe when he is 1 1/2 years old or 3 1/2 years old makes absolutely NO difference. He will be passing on the same genetics no matter what age he is. This is all a bunch of mumbo jumbo that is trying to be sold, but the reality is that AR's do nothing but grow bucks a little bigger for those hunters who prefer to shoot a bigger racked buck over a smaller one. AR's don't make any difference to the herds health one little bit!
09-22-2009, 01:42 PM
#60
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,233
This is all a bunch of mumbo jumbo that is trying to be sold, but the reality is that AR's do nothing but grow bucks a little bigger for those hunters who prefer to shoot a bigger racked buck over a smaller one. AR's don't make any difference to the herds health one little bit!
JC