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Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

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Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Old 10-28-2008, 08:21 PM
  #391  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

I guess that our definition of "lots" is not thesame.

As to greene county, still too many deer, and it is not limited to the private ground I hunt. I can`t drive to Waynesburg of an evening without dodging deer.

And letting the public in to hunt.........not in this lifetime. There are so many poachers with no regard for property, game laws, and littering, we will never go down that road again. Other people do hunt there, but you can bet that I know them personally, and know when they are around. And they know what the rules are.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:33 PM
  #392  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

"And letting the public in to hunt.........not in this lifetime. There are so many poachers with no regard for property, game laws, and littering, we will never go down that road again. Other people do hunt there, but you can bet that I know them personally, and know when they are around. And they know what the rules are. "

I dont blame you for those reasons. Seems to me though, you are basing support of this program on a property that has not at all been touched by it. Also, if you support sound management, there is no excuse to have those numbers of deer on one square mile, yet you seem to support numbers less than1/5 or 1/6 that, and continuing to decline everywhere else in the wmu.

And yes, I see adeer or few on nearly daily basis on my travels through the county. I dont find that odd since the area isnt exactly "big woods" and the deer here are HIGHLY visible due to the broken habitat, and ya gotta remember you are driving through many square miles of deer habitat.

My problem isnt with "no deer" here. ITs with provenless than can be had responsibly for no reason. Its also with the desire of pgc to have thenow muchlower numbers to continue to decline even though they claim to be "stabilizing" it. The allocations dont equal that and will not allow it.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:37 PM
  #393  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

ORIGINAL: the outsider

I've been trading e-mails with someone who is allowing us to hunt on a property in northern Clinton County (2G). This particular area apparently has a decent population of deer (more than the 10+- we are used to there). Unfortunately someone illegally killed a large buck there recently, cut off the head, and left the body. I'm sure a lot more are illegally killed in 2G, as it has a low human population. We used to hear a lot of shooting on Sunday night before the buck season opener when there was a lot of deer there.

if that BIG BUCK was in HYNER,PA. area of clinton county, i have a good idea who did it.[:@]headless bucks were also found 2 years ago in clinton county off rt.144 near the beech crrek rd/swamp branch rd.

i think they found 5 headless huge bucks.[:@]

WCO knows who it is. but he is only allowed 5 hrs overtime a month.

i said it before,WCO MUST BE PUT ON SALARY,GET RID OF OVERTIME.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:46 PM
  #394  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Sometimes somepeople scoff at your posts sproulman, but you hit this one right on the head. You seem to know what's going on in that area.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:48 PM
  #395  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

ORIGINAL: RSB

Thats doubtful Rsb. Especially since there are so many fewer.
What’s doubtful? That I could harvest two adult does injust a few hours of hunting on two separate days? I’ll tell you what I will do, since the harvest report cards were already sent in. I will ask you to remind me in about three monthsat which point the data will be in the system andI will go into the Game Commission Mainframe andpull up those harvest reportsand post a scanned image of them just so you canhavea big mouth full of crowto chew on. Think I'm bluffing, then just remind me to pull that data once it is available and I will be more then happy to provide it for all to see.

I have rarely had much trouble finding deer when many others were complaining. It has been that way for over forty years. Over my entire hunting career other hunters have been spending their time complaining about no deer.I insteadhave spent my time learning about deer, what they eat, when they eat, where they bed and where and when they are most likely to be moving. While other are sitting around complaining I am most likely either in the field working and learning. Then when the season is in and I have the tags, and the time when not at work,to hunt I spend my time hunting instead of complaining.

I agree that I am seeing far fewer deer then there used to be, but I am still seeing plenty of deer in ALL of the places where anyone that knows much of anything about deer would expect to find deer. The difference is that now deer don’t have to spend nearly all of their time competing with way to many deer to find enough food to stay alive. Now deer can behave as deer were intended by living in the best habitat areas and only being up walking around feeding during short duration periods.


Maybe a new Wco is needed that can actually curtail these crimes against our resources instead of having them increasing out of control in the area spoken of? Perhaps what should be "common sense" would be stricter wco performance evaluations?

Boy talk about a cheap shot!

I have spent over thirty-one years protecting the resources and sport of hunting for thankless people like you. People that don’t have even the slightest clue about most of the things they think they know so much about. I put my life on the line to save a few deer, turkeys and other wildlife so some jackass that spends all of their time bad mouthing the Game Commission and it’s Officers can go out and have a reasonable change of success even though most of them don’t deserve success because they haven’t put any honest effort into learning how to be successful.

We arrest the poachers when we encounter them, and I have arrested a lot of them over my career.


What have you done for the benefit of the resources or the future of hunting?


I dare say that you and your ilk have done far more harm to the sport of hunting and the future of our resources then even the poachers can do.


The poachers hurt the honest hunters but the clueless people that undermine sound scientific wildlife management, and the funding needed to maintain such programs, do irrepairable damage that lasts for decades and maybe even centuries.

R.S. Bodenhorn


rsb, comeon down to CLINTON COUNTY,we dont have deer but we do have POACHERS and they are after the BIG BUCKS and hunters are getting awful mad over the bucks killed illegally at night.

i will tell you also what hurts the HONEST hunters.

the BROWN ITS DOWN HUNTERS WITH KID ALONG OR KIDS TAG ALONG .no need to look for horns or 3 point rule.

how do you stop that?
its happening and a lot of it is in the CREWS driving deer.

i hear it all time,i even told WCO at lock haven,pa. about it..[:@]



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Old 10-28-2008, 09:51 PM
  #396  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

ORIGINAL: sproulman

ORIGINAL: RSB

Thats doubtful Rsb. Especially since there are so many fewer.
What’s doubtful? That I could harvest two adult does injust a few hours of hunting on two separate days? I’ll tell you what I will do, since the harvest report cards were already sent in. I will ask you to remind me in about three monthsat which point the data will be in the system andI will go into the Game Commission Mainframe andpull up those harvest reportsand post a scanned image of them just so you canhavea big mouth full of crowto chew on. Think I'm bluffing, then just remind me to pull that data once it is available and I will be more then happy to provide it for all to see.

I have rarely had much trouble finding deer when many others were complaining. It has been that way for over forty years. Over my entire hunting career other hunters have been spending their time complaining about no deer.I insteadhave spent my time learning about deer, what they eat, when they eat, where they bed and where and when they are most likely to be moving. While other are sitting around complaining I am most likely either in the field working and learning. Then when the season is in and I have the tags, and the time when not at work,to hunt I spend my time hunting instead of complaining.

I agree that I am seeing far fewer deer then there used to be, but I am still seeing plenty of deer in ALL of the places where anyone that knows much of anything about deer would expect to find deer. The difference is that now deer don’t have to spend nearly all of their time competing with way to many deer to find enough food to stay alive. Now deer can behave as deer were intended by living in the best habitat areas and only being up walking around feeding during short duration periods.


Maybe a new Wco is needed that can actually curtail these crimes against our resources instead of having them increasing out of control in the area spoken of? Perhaps what should be "common sense" would be stricter wco performance evaluations?

Boy talk about a cheap shot!

I have spent over thirty-one years protecting the resources and sport of hunting for thankless people like you. People that don’t have even the slightest clue about most of the things they think they know so much about. I put my life on the line to save a few deer, turkeys and other wildlife so some jackass that spends all of their time bad mouthing the Game Commission and it’s Officers can go out and have a reasonable change of success even though most of them don’t deserve success because they haven’t put any honest effort into learning how to be successful.

We arrest the poachers when we encounter them, and I have arrested a lot of them over my career.


What have you done for the benefit of the resources or the future of hunting?


I dare say that you and your ilk have done far more harm to the sport of hunting and the future of our resources then even the poachers can do.


The poachers hurt the honest hunters but the clueless people that undermine sound scientific wildlife management, and the funding needed to maintain such programs, do irrepairable damage that lasts for decades and maybe even centuries.

R.S. Bodenhorn


rsb, comeon down to CLINTON COUNTY,we dont have deer but we do have POACHERS and they are after the BIG BUCKS and hunters are getting awful mad over the bucks killed illegally at night.

i will tell you also what hurts the HONEST hunters.

the BROWN ITS DOWN HUNTERS WITH KID ALONG OR KIDS TAG ALONG .no need to look for horns or 3 point rule.

how do you stop that?
its happening and a lot of it is in the CREWS driving deer.

i hear it all time,i even told WCO at lock haven,pa. about it..[:@]



I’d love to have the time to come down and help catch the poachers in Clinton County but I have too darn many of them here to eat up my time.

I agree that many unscrupulous hunters will kill any buck and use a Mentored Youth or Junior Hunter’s tag on it. I also wish I knew the answer on how to fix that problem with today’s political attitudes. The only thing that would make that less of a problem would be to make everyone, youth included, conform to the antler restrictions. A lot of the hunters and certainly the politicians are apposed to making youth pass on a buck regardless of the antler size.

Other then that just keep working with the WCO toward arresting the people violating in such a manner.

R.S. Bodenhorn

I’ll get back to some of the other posts on this thread as time permits. It is time to get to bed now. Tomorrow is an early work day.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:02 PM
  #397  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

ORIGINAL: RSB

ORIGINAL: sproulman

ORIGINAL: RSB

Thats doubtful Rsb. Especially since there are so many fewer.
What’s doubtful? That I could harvest two adult does injust a few hours of hunting on two separate days? I’ll tell you what I will do, since the harvest report cards were already sent in. I will ask you to remind me in about three monthsat which point the data will be in the system andI will go into the Game Commission Mainframe andpull up those harvest reportsand post a scanned image of them just so you canhavea big mouth full of crowto chew on. Think I'm bluffing, then just remind me to pull that data once it is available and I will be more then happy to provide it for all to see.

I have rarely had much trouble finding deer when many others were complaining. It has been that way for over forty years. Over my entire hunting career other hunters have been spending their time complaining about no deer.I insteadhave spent my time learning about deer, what they eat, when they eat, where they bed and where and when they are most likely to be moving. While other are sitting around complaining I am most likely either in the field working and learning. Then when the season is in and I have the tags, and the time when not at work,to hunt I spend my time hunting instead of complaining.

I agree that I am seeing far fewer deer then there used to be, but I am still seeing plenty of deer in ALL of the places where anyone that knows much of anything about deer would expect to find deer. The difference is that now deer don’t have to spend nearly all of their time competing with way to many deer to find enough food to stay alive. Now deer can behave as deer were intended by living in the best habitat areas and only being up walking around feeding during short duration periods.


Maybe a new Wco is needed that can actually curtail these crimes against our resources instead of having them increasing out of control in the area spoken of? Perhaps what should be "common sense" would be stricter wco performance evaluations?

Boy talk about a cheap shot!

I have spent over thirty-one years protecting the resources and sport of hunting for thankless people like you. People that don’t have even the slightest clue about most of the things they think they know so much about. I put my life on the line to save a few deer, turkeys and other wildlife so some jackass that spends all of their time bad mouthing the Game Commission and it’s Officers can go out and have a reasonable change of success even though most of them don’t deserve success because they haven’t put any honest effort into learning how to be successful.

We arrest the poachers when we encounter them, and I have arrested a lot of them over my career.


What have you done for the benefit of the resources or the future of hunting?


I dare say that you and your ilk have done far more harm to the sport of hunting and the future of our resources then even the poachers can do.


The poachers hurt the honest hunters but the clueless people that undermine sound scientific wildlife management, and the funding needed to maintain such programs, do irrepairable damage that lasts for decades and maybe even centuries.

R.S. Bodenhorn


rsb, comeon down to CLINTON COUNTY,we dont have deer but we do have POACHERS and they are after the BIG BUCKS and hunters are getting awful mad over the bucks killed illegally at night.

i will tell you also what hurts the HONEST hunters.

the BROWN ITS DOWN HUNTERS WITH KID ALONG OR KIDS TAG ALONG .no need to look for horns or 3 point rule.

how do you stop that?
its happening and a lot of it is in the CREWS driving deer.

i hear it all time,i even told WCO at lock haven,pa. about it..[:@]



I’d love to have the time to come down and help catch the poachers in Clinton County but I have too darn many of them here to eat up my time.

I agree that many unscrupulous hunters will kill any buck and use a Mentored Youth or Junior Hunter’s tag on it. I also wish I knew the answer on how to fix that problem with today’s political attitudes. The only thing that would make that less of a problem would be to make everyone, youth included, conform to the antler restrictions. A lot of the hunters and certainly the politicians are apposed to making youth pass on a buck regardless of the antler size.

Other then that just keep working with the WCO toward arresting the people violating in such a manner.

R.S. Bodenhorn

I’ll get back to some of the other posts on this thread as time permits. It is time to get to bed now. Tomorrow is an early work day.

dam, of all years we poked at each other,WE FINALLY AGREED ON SOMETHING

THAT WAS MY idea also,

i feel a kid should go by rule ,3 point to side.you are right, it could put the BROWN CROWD out of business.

i also would like to see, let only kids shoot a doe in WMU2G,not us.

this could put many more kids in woods.

only thing that could help SOME,is the WCO to stop and tell crews or any adult with kid that shooting at any deer and having kid tag it WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

THIS I THINK, WOULD SCARE most OF THE HUNTERS DOING THIS.
RIGHT NOW IN CLINTON COUNTY, WE VERY SELDOM EVER SEE AWCO, THEY KNOW THIS.

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Old 10-29-2008, 06:15 AM
  #398  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Big Country,did you ever think that guys like you are the reason hunters have become the way they are today,especially in Greene County.I've hunted there the past 25 years and it's the mentality you exibit that causes people to do the things you bitch about.When I started hunting in Green,all you had to do was ask for permission and most of the time it was o.k. It was an untapped resource since the majority of hunters in western Pa still went to the big woods up north to hunt.But as that herd declined and word got out more guys stated to look for places to go close to home where the deer population was booming and big bucks were a lot more prevalent.Since then,it's become more or less a private hunting ground for landownwers and guys who can afford to lease propery there.Now I'm not defending the actions like you describe,but don't complain about too many deer and then turn everyone away who wants permission to hunt . As far as poaching, the residents and landowners there kill more deer out of season than poachers could ever kill,and I personally don't have a problem with them taking an occasional deer for meat,but they shouldn't point the finger at somebody else when they're guilty of the same thing.Owning property does't give anyone the right to break the laws that everyone else is expected to adhear to. Landowners don't own the deer so they're no more entitled to them than anybody else.I've witnessed more than one confrontaion between an irrate landowner and a hunter that the landowner "thinks" is doing something wrong (remember a few years back when the landowner killed a guys he thought was road hunting and all he was doing was taking a leak).Most of the property I hunted the landowners themselves couldn't get along with their neigbors and wouldn't allow them to hunt on their property.You can't have it both ways ! You can't complain about too many deer and then do everything in your power to keep people from hunting them.In the last 10 years I've lost my hunting areas 3 times due to guys willing to pays big dollars to lease the property I had permission to hunt on.The only option then is the state gamelands which are almost void of deer and hunters behind every tree.It's not the place I want to take my 3 sons to.You show me a piece of private ground that open to hunting with permission and I'd be glad to go there but it's tough sledding at best.Try getting turned down 20-30 times a day when asking permission and you'd get discouraged too.Put yourself on the other side of the fence and you'll realize how tough it is.Consider yourself extremely lucky for what you have because there are a lot of us around with no opportunities out there and not enough $'s to pay for our own private hunting grounds.P.S. I'd be more than happy to take care of some of those deer for you ! I can provide refences upon request.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:02 AM
  #399  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

OK, but what percentage of the harvest was the 48k compared to the 2002 52k percentage?
The 48K in 2007 was 44% of the harvest compared to the 52K 2.5 buck in 2002 which was 32% of the harvest.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:10 AM
  #400  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

[quote]ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn

ORIGINAL: RSB


I agree that I am seeing far fewer deer then there used to be, but I am still seeing plenty of deer in ALL of the places where anyone that knows much of anything about deer would expect to find deer.
I have scouted year round, hunted water sources, varied food sources, planted food plots, hunted staging areas where deer have always browsed prior to coming out into bigger timber and fields,supplied minerals ( example-Dicalcium Phosphate) from lateFeb till mid August, hinge cut timber for bedding areas, hunted"historical" bedding areasand planted fruit trees. I have trail cam pics of two approx. 2 1/2 yr oldbuck that have improved in rack size considerably in the last year due to in large partthe mineral supplementation. I am as scent-free as possible I purchase a new scentlok outfit every 3 years and wash it often, scent-free soap, deodorant, laundry detergent, spray, wafers, wear rubber bottom boots, etc.But for all my efforts and miles walked, hours sat and varied techniques in hunting I have only counted 8 deer in total after too many hours to count(minimum 25 hrs per week). The only two bucks were a 5 and 4 point. One adult doe, the rest yearlings and fawns.
I do all the same things in Ohio (for instance) and I saw more deer in one day there than I have all season here in Pa. I saw more buck in 2 days than I have total deer in Pa.
Your claim that the deer are "behaving as deer are intended" doesn't wash with me. The only way for deer to do what deer do naturally is to take man out of the equation. PAGC programs dictate behaviors and populations so don't claim things are so perfectto statethings are the way they "naturally" should be. Anyone "who knows much of anything" knows better!

Please bless me with some insight from your expertise to help me become more successful at seeing all these deer in Pa that I apparently know nothing about. Is the secret to count the same deer over and over again?
RSB, I am still waiting to receive your help in educating me on how to find all these deer.
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