Cornelius08

5miler, I agree with all.

"Any one that is mentally challenged enough to try to poison coyotes in order to save deer should be banned from ever setting foot on any game lands and never receive a hunting license in any state."
And had this happened to my dogs his very well being would be questionable."

And I also agree withthis completely up till this:


"And making personal attacks against a fellow hunter whom you don't happen to agree with shows nothing more than an uneducated, inability to debate an issue on its merits.
I have no good words for the P.G.C. or its deer program but personal attacks do no more than devalue your argument."

Uneducated inability to debate an issue on its merits?? You mean like people attempting to stretch anothers statement to be something it wasnt in an attempt to discredit?? Yeah. I see your point. I guess you just wanted to provide us with a firsthand example.

Where were the "personal attacks", aside from the one you just levied against me....?I simply stated what SHOULD be obvious. IF poaching is at an all time high in awmu, AS RSB HIMSELF POINTED OUT...thenperhaps something moreneeds be done there. Maybe we should just ignore it, like we do our deer plan results?

I see nothing wrong with desiring to see performance evaluations conducted and addressing increases in poaching on a wmu by wmu basis.Same goes for every other wco in the state. Im sure most would pass with flying colors. I dont believe all would. RSB? Dont know or care. Would guess thathe would, since From all Ive read or heard, he is MUCH better at law enforcement than deer management debate!

FiveMiler

That's a statement that rings quite true. Most of the time, it's the "deer behind every tree" mantra. Or the "you aren't a true conservationist" mantra. Or the "you've been spoiled for to long" mantra. The ecoterrorists are a wicked bunch and are heavily entrenched. I've been witness to some of their dirty tricks, such as PGC personel supplying harvest report info topro-PGC folksto be shared on messegboards in an attempt to discredit the anti-PGCer as either one who isn't able to kill a deer, or one who doesn't send in report cards. They are a vile bunch in their own reich. I mean right. Very very sneaky.

I'm a moderator on another board. I was quite surprised by a PM I received from another mod on another board a few hours ago. Sneaky. They are very very sneaky.

So there you have it. Many have wondered for quite some time if a bit of censorship wasn't going on in regards to another popular forum.Looks like it could be the case.

RSB

What’s doubtful? That I could harvest two adult does injust a few hours of hunting on two separate days? I’ll tell you what I will do, since the harvest report cards were already sent in. I will ask you to remind me in about three monthsat which point the data will be in the system andI will go into the Game Commission Mainframe andpull up those harvest reportsand post a scanned image of them just so you canhavea big mouth full of crowto chew on. Think I'm bluffing, then just remind me to pull that data once it is available and I will be more then happy to provide it for all to see.

I have rarely had much trouble finding deer when many others were complaining. It has been that way for over forty years. Over my entire hunting career other hunters have been spending their time complaining about no deer.I insteadhave spent my time learning about deer, what they eat, when they eat, where they bed and where and when they are most likely to be moving. While other are sitting around complaining I am most likely either in the field working and learning. Then when the season is in and I have the tags, and the time when not at work,to hunt I spend my time hunting instead of complaining.

I agree that I am seeing far fewer deer then there used to be, but I am still seeing plenty of deer in ALL of the places where anyone that knows much of anything about deer would expect to find deer. The difference is that now deer don’t have to spend nearly all of their time competing with way to many deer to find enough food to stay alive. Now deer can behave as deer were intended by living in the best habitat areas and only being up walking around feeding during short duration periods.

Quote:

Maybe a new Wco is needed that can actually curtail these crimes against our resources instead of having them increasing out of control in the area spoken of? Perhaps what should be "common sense" would be stricter wco performance evaluations?

Boy talk about a cheap shot!

I have spent over thirty-one years protecting the resources and sport of hunting for thankless people like you. People that don’t have even the slightest clue about most of the things they think they know so much about. I put my life on the line to save a few deer, turkeys and other wildlife so some jackass that spends all of their time bad mouthing the Game Commission and it’s Officers can go out and have a reasonable change of success even though most of them don’t deserve success because they haven’t put any honest effort into learning how to be successful.

We arrest the poachers when we encounter them, and I have arrested a lot of them over my career.


What have you done for the benefit of the resources or the future of hunting?


I dare say that you and your ilk have done far more harm to the sport of hunting and the future of our resources then even the poachers can do.


The poachers hurt the honest hunters but the clueless people that undermine sound scientific wildlife management, and the funding needed to maintain such programs, do irrepairable damage that lasts for decades and maybe even centuries.

R.S. Bodenhorn

bluebird2

And I dare say the PGC staff that made the following claims about the new deer management plan bear the brunt of the resonpsiblity for harming the sport of hunting and the future of the resource.
1. ARs would double or triple the number of 8 pt. bucks.
2. Buck harvests would return to normal after the first year of ARs.
3. HR and ARs would increase breeding rates and recruitment and offset the loss of adult doe.
4. The breeding window would decrease as a result of ARs .
5. The decrease in the breeding window would overwhelm predators resulting in better recruitment.
6. Dominant breeding of older bucks would improve the gene pool resulting in bigger 2.5+ buck.

None of the above claims have been shown to be true and as a result the credibility of the PGC is at an all time low.

bawanajim

I'm thinking bowling for bucks would confirme your status as buck master of PA wild woods.[:-]

4evrhtn

[quote]ORIGINAL: RSB

I have scouted year round, hunted water sources, varied food sources, planted food plots, hunted staging areas where deer have always browsed prior to coming out into bigger timber and fields,supplied minerals ( example-Dicalcium Phosphate) from lateFeb till mid August, hinge cut timber for bedding areas, hunted"historical" bedding areasand planted fruit trees. I have trail cam pics of two approx. 2 1/2 yr oldbuck that have improved in rack size considerably in the last year due to in large partthe mineral supplementation. I am as scent-free as possible I purchase a new scentlok outfit every 3 years and wash it often, scent-free soap, deodorant, laundry detergent, spray, wafers, wear rubber bottom boots, etc.But for all my efforts and miles walked, hours sat and varied techniques in hunting I have only counted 8 deer in total after too many hours to count(minimum 25 hrs per week). The only two bucks were a 5 and 4 point. One adult doe, the rest yearlings and fawns.
I do all the same things in Ohio (for instance) and I saw more deer in one day there than I have all season here in Pa. I saw more buck in 2 days than I have total deer in Pa.
Your claim that the deer are "behaving as deer are intended" doesn't wash with me. The only way for deer to do what deer do naturally is to take man out of the equation. PAGC programs dictate behaviors and populations so don't claim things are so perfectto statethings are the way they "naturally" should be. Anyone "who knows much of anything" knows better!

Please bless me with some insight from your expertise to help me become more successful at seeing all these deer in Pa that I apparently know nothing about.

Big Country

Everybody does not share the same ill thoughts of the PGC as a whole RSB.

Heck, I basically stopped deer hunting in PA many years ago, due in large part to the predominant mindset of my fellow PA hunters, and in a small part because of the substandard(age limited) bucks.

I have no doubt that the PGC`s plan for our deer herd is not perfect. I do not believe there can be a perfect plan here due to sheer hunter numbers. Couple those numbers with the rampant desire by the rank and file PA deer hunter to kill "his" buck, regardless of age of the deer, and damn the consequences down the road...........nobody has a plan that will work 100% in this state.

Then there are the poachers......and the hunters who do not poach, but do not turn in the poachers they know of.

bluebird2

What are the consequences down the road? genetics weren't a problem ,breeding rates weren't a problem ,so what was the problem created by harvesting 80% of our 1.5 buck.

Cornelius08

"What’s doubtful? That I could harvest two adult does injust a few hours of hunting on two separate days? "

HUH??? Nothing I said had anything to do with that. The "doubtful because now there are so few" comment wasin reply to your comment of all thepoachers seeing all those "big bucks" we now have and not being able to help themselves!(LOL)

Im far from being so impressed that someone killed a deer that Im gonna call 'em a liar!![8D] Has zero bearing on what anyones views of our deer management is or should be. Way to go, I guess. Ive been bowhunting for weeks now and couldve probably killed 8 or 10 doe, not to mention 2 barely legal bucks a 7 and 8 point. Not my cups of tea.

"Boy talk about a cheap shot! "

I know you are "thick skinned" Rsb, and know youve given and recieved far worse in the last several years you've been telling tales on several boards, so I dont see your need to whine, cry foul and pretend to be offended.

"I have spent over thirty-one years protecting the resources and sport of hunting for thankless people like you. People that don’t have even the slightest clue about most of the things they think they know so much about. I put my life on the line to save a few deer, turkeys and other wildlife so some jackass that spends all of their time bad mouthing the Game Commission and it’s Officers can go out and have a reasonable change of success even though most of them don’t deserve success because they haven’t put any honest effort into learning how to be successful."

WAAAA! Cant think of any rational response to that drivel.

RSB, more often then not, its the ones in green that prove beyond doubt who the "jackasses" are. I didnt do a thing outta line, I give the wcos who do their job as they should all the credit in the world and appreciate what they do, but you wanna feign your disgustand use that as an excuse to take REAL cheap shots. Real classy Mr. "professional". I badmouth the game commission because they deserve it. And for the most part that has zero to do with you, and I have little problem with most wcos, but just like any profession there are complete idiots there as well. Most Ive met havent fallen into that category.....But sorry, Im not gonna sign you up for sainthood because you are doing the job you chose to do. If you werent doing it, someone else would be.

"We arrest the poachers when we encounter them, and I have arrested a lot of them over my career. "

Congratulations.


"What have you done for the benefit of the resources or the future of hunting?"

Enough by my standards.And I dont find it necessary for you to judge wether its enough or not.


"I dare say that you and your ilk have done far more harm to the sport of hunting and the future of our resources then even the poachers can do. "

Sorry. But Im not the one causing the hunter ranks to dwindle by over double the national average. Im also not the one crying for money, being sued, being cussed to no end, and soon to be audited because of their "credibility" issues.

And"my ilk" isnt either. LOLOL!

Cornelius08

Bigcountry, I agree that the numbers of hunters makes it a challenge and nothing is gonna be 100% perfect for everyone, but we should shoot a bit higher than the lows we are at currently.

Rediculous extreme reductions, and having VERY few areas anywhere near their carry capacity is a travesty.