Look me up the next time you go to camp.I'll show you every single place where I hunt.It will give you a place to start scouting and you'll see what I mean.None of these places are a far drive for you and none of them are hard access.There's two excellent gamelands within a few miles of Duboisand loads of other property open to the public that still have plenty of deer.The state forests are lousy in most places do to the poor state of the habitat.Things won't be changing much for a while either because they fence in most of the timber sales.There are some decent places on the state forests and I'll show you those places.The one thing you'll notice is how much better the regeneration is and that's exactly why they aren't fencing these few spots.

I have no reason to lie about anything.Three years agoI was worried about the trend hunting was heading to in this area.However,when you look at things objectively,it becomes apparent that the winters of 03 and 04 where the biggest reason for the decline in our herd around here.A number of things have changed over the past two years and things are looking alot better.I've never been selflish about the places where I hunt and I'd be more than glad to show you greener pastures.I told you before,I'll show you all my trail cam photos and even show you the exact tree where they were taken.There's no reason to have a camp around here and not have decent hunting within a short drive.

I found more dead deer in the spring of 2004 than I've ever found inall other years combined.I broke open the femurs on most of these deer and malnutrition was a contributing cause to their death.I don't know what else to say,I saw them with my own two eyes.If deer were dying that winter,fawn recruitment definately took a nosedive.

It happened in New York and New England too.

no, road hunting is not legal.

doug, with lack of game and pressure on what is left, we will never have a good number of anything even with great habitat,UNLESS restrictions are put on to bring the game back to levels they were years ago.this is what i am trying to get accross.with all the negatives on our game that are left, no way will we see increase with HABITAT alone.

douge,oh my, deer starving.you are welcome to your opinion but i hope no one believes what you say. not being smart to you but your comments have really gone bad. no deer are starving.

Yes we did have very deep snow that year and it did have a heavy crust.Lack of mobility was probably a prime reason for the poor health of the deer that winter but the lack of browse was also a huge factor.Most of the dead deer I found where in areas with terrible habitat.In fact we did a browse impact survey in the onearea and found that 75% of the area had no regeneration despite being recently logged.Of the regen that was present,59% of it was beech which was severly browsed.This area is an extreme example because it's private property that hasn't been hunted in over 40 years.We found five dead deer in one 77 acre patch of woods and they all died from starvation.We had biologists with us from PSU that day.The situation was similar in other areas I surveyed that winter and it shows that that winter had a profound impact on our remaining deer and on recruitment.I never bought into that theory until I saw it with my own two eyes.That year it was very rare to see a doe with twins in this areaand I saw way less fawns than usual.

The 12 dpsm you refrenced about 2G was from the 2003 annual report.If you read it closely,you'll notice that the 12 dpsm figure is the lowest over winter deer density for 2G.In other words the worst areas of 2G overwintered 12 deer that.It doesn't say that 2G averaged 12 dpsm.

I never said 2G can't over winter 10 dpsm.I can also guarantee you that the areas whereI hunt on public land have no where near 10 dpsm.I saw 15 deer the week before spring gobbler on SGL 93.My buddy saw over 40 in one group about a month ago on SGL 77.A week after that, I saw a group of 12 on a different area of those same game lands.I sawa group of twenty onthe last day of rifle season in Sinnemahoning.They did a FLIR this year on some of the dmap properties where I hunt.These are the areas that I consider poor hunting and I bet they find well over 10 dpsm there.In fact,I bet it's closer to 20 dpsm.

Despite what ever statistics you have,we still have plenty of deer around here.Why would I lieabout that?What would I have to gain?I had 15 different opportunities to kill deer that were well within range this year.Some daysI didn't see a thing but that's the way it's always been.Why would I complain about that?If I can have that many opportunities,andI only hunt saturdays and one or two afternoons a week,how can other people go weeks without seeing a deer?

SM,the slashed the allocations in 2G from 5200 two years ago to 29000 and this year it will be 19000.That has and will continue to decrease the pressure.I see way less pressure today than I did just five years ago.

If you think bad winters in poor habitat won't effect the recruitment rate of fawns,you have no clue what you're talking about.Once a doe loses 20-25% of her body weight,she'll most likely abort or lose her fawns shortly after birth.Even if the fawns do survive,if they're undernourished,they're a much easier target for predators.A deer needs several pounds of high quality browse to to survive a bad winter.Try and find 5lbs of browse for a single deer in many areas of our northern tier.Multiply that byseveral deer and at least 60 days and you'll see how easy it is for a doe to lose that kind of weight.

There's plentyof remote areas in Pa that have very low populations and recieve very little hunting pressure.Why do you suppose the herd has decreased so much in these areas over the past few years?

A high antlerless harvest definately reduced the herd.I'll never disagree with that.However,those two winters definately had a big effect on the herd around here.It will turn right back around over the next couple of years.

There isn't one area where I hunt that the dd is even close to 8.5 dpsm.I'd be willing to wage a bet that very few areas are that low and the FLIR proved that last year.Flir shows a minimum deer density and very few places came up with less than 10 dpsm.The one area,Hicks run,had somewhere around 9 dpsm.I familiar with that area and it's steep,rugged and has terrible habitat.It doesn't surprise me one bit that they only came up with that many deer.You keep leaving out the fact that the numbers from that annual report are minimum deer densities for 2G.They never said 2gaveraged 12 dpsm.

I see things getting better in every area where I hunt since 2004.There's no question about it.I live here.I hunt here.Pressure has been way down.Shooting has been way down and the allocations have been cut way back.We've had two easy winters with good mast crops.This all adds up to more future deer and less hunters.

Maybe the conditions don't meet every hunter's expectations but I'm fine with the way things are right now.I'm also seeing much better overall regeneration in areas that are being cut.

You need to take a trip out here and look at the habitat in the areas where so many are complaining about no deer.I'd love to show you these areas.I'd also like to show you areas that are starting to recover since the herd has been cut way back.I can also show you a couple of areas that always had good regeneration despite having alot of deer.They still have me scratching my head.Overall though,we had pitiful habitat and it was hard to get regeneration without putting up a fence.I've always said we had too many deer for too long.I've always agreed with herd reductions but for a long time,I thought we were taking it too far.I don't think that way anymore because there's so much evidence that proves the habitat is way too stressed in this part of the state.I agree that the deer didn't do it all by themselves but at this point,they are one of the biggest limiting factors around here.I'm fine with less deer because I can see positive changes are starting to happen with the habitat.While deer numbers are definately way down compared to several years ago,they still aren't that bad and they're starting climb again.I see it with my own eyes and I have no reason to lie.I also agree that our situation in 2G is much different than your situation in the east.I'm sure there are many places that didn't need to see such drastic reductions.Around here,we needed alot less deer and that's exactly what was happening.The winters of 2003 and 2004 definately compounded the herd reductions and hunters need to recognize that.The PGC has made big changes around here as far as allocations go and the results are already noticeable.I don't know what else to sayother than I'm seeing more deer(alot more)than I did two springs ago.The bitter pill we had to swallow isn't as bitter as many claim,at least in this part of 2G.I predict deer numbers will be almost back to normal around here by the fall of 2007.I know we overwintered alot more deer this year than we have the last couple of years.This years mild winter and mast crop will surely boost recruitment and the slash in antlerless allocations will save alot of deer.Given a decent winter next year,we'll have more than enough deer in 2007.

You use PGC numbers because that's all we have to go by.I know they're the best you have but I still have little faith in them,especially since less than 40% of hunters comply and send in a report card.They do show trends but they don't tell the whole picture.