Well Tom I look at it like this.... they aren't getting rid of F-18s in the Navy because they didn't work..... they just developed something that works better (the JSF). Granted that ain't a great comparison, because a bullet that kills a deer has done its job, whether it expanded to 1.5x's caliber and retained 90% of its weight or not. If you want an aircraft that will drop a bomb, you can get a hand grenade and a Cessna for a lot less money and bother than it takes to develop an F-22 and train a naval aviator. You'll have to refer to my bourbon analogy in my first post... I think it fits better here still...

The original X bullets that I used were out of my 30/30 Ackley. Now, those big old flat hollow bullets that you could practically sharpen a #2 pencil in... I can pretty much guarentee (though I only recovered a couple) that they all opened up.... heck it was like shooting a partition without the lead in the nose at a deer.

What I think ammunition companies are attempting to do by developing new "premium" complex bullets is eliminate variables that could lead to "bullet failure". They are trying to control the expansion more and more... trying to control the uncontrolable... a bone at just such an angle for example... a bonded bullet will eat right on through that bone, while a non-bonded bullet might start to break up... granted it will make it through the bone and turn it into schrapnel as it goes... both bullets will kill the deer, I'm not debating that at all. Will it kill it any better? Well... just how dead do you want it to be? Hunters look to eliminate variables, or potential issues before the hunt... premium bullets fill that niche for some folks... guys like you and I Tom... we handload and build up loads for our rifles so we can hit a Skoal can at 300 yards every time, and we enjoy doing it. It doesn't matter to me (or likely you either) if the bullet that will do just that is a 5 cents worth of lead tire metal bullet or a .75 TSX bullet. As long as it arrives on time right where it is supposed to, we'll find our deer dead enough for us.

LOL You dont need to justify spending a fortune on a specialized bullet just to kill a deer with me.....hell its your money... I dont care what you use...


Telling me the x kills better than anything else is pure plain and simple horse****....dead is dead is dead...theres no varying shades of degrees of death. I just went down and opened the freezer and poked at a bag of tenderloin for 30 seconds and it didnt move...Id say thats dead...

I'd say the biggest difference in premium ammo and the regular stuff is tolerances. It doesn't matter how good the bullet is if the loads are not consistant! I also think that some of the cheaper loads have come a long way in the last few years, quality-wise. But, all guns are different! Some guns prefer one brand over the others. My 7MM RM seems to like the plain old Core-Locts over the fancy high dollar stuff!
I do my job right, Betsy does hers! The deer couldn't tell the difference from being hit with lead or 24K gold!

I agree with oldelkhunter.

Those old CoreLokts, Power Points, and Hi-Shoks always worked fine for me, but I don't shoot too many magnums, so that's about all that I can find available for my plain old calibers. None of that fancy stuff.

I reload, but don't use GameKings any longer on animals (though are great for target shooting) because they can't seem to hold onto their jacket. I've had absolutely no problem with Hornady Interlocks, though. The only "high-end" bullets I've used were Barnes and A-Square .375s, which performed exactly as I'd expect them to for the price I paid for them.

CALIFORNIA andf the next great lead ban . There a dimes worth of poo for "premium" bullet.

I've never shot one ,never needed to . I like patch balls in my hawkens , cast 160s and 180s and 150 spbt hornady's in my 308 and 06' , 255-60 rnfp cast a little to soft in my 45 Colts , 158 swc pick a flavor for 38-357.
You'll be shocked to learn I pass shoot geese with a 2 3/4 12 ga too .

If you look at the board at heart we are all just die hard out doors junkies and a whole bunch of old schoolers trying to get and keep the youngin's in the field even if we might have to admit that under 125 yrds about any .22+center fire rifle (18"+bbl) will kill a deer and about any .35+ pistol will do the same under 50 yrds within reason .I can think of at least 5 or 6 exceptions that are legal for the above uses but are generally obscure and would baffle most wardens .

No arguements that a standard cup and core works well on deer. However some like to use one load for deer, elk and moose so for this the premium might be worth the extra dimes. Having tried to find the right combination for a do all butam back to whereI started a deer load for deer(expansion)and a load for moose/elk (penetration).

Tom,
I primarily use the Sierra Game King BT to reload my 7mm mag. I've used the Noslar and the Barnes but only when I can get them on sale. I see no need to pay 4 times the price for the Barnes (as compared to the Sierra) for dead is dead with good shot placement. I shoot a few hundred roundswith the 7 mm mag at the range through out the year soI feel very comfortable usingthe Sierrasin the field. I can see those that are only buying a box of factory ammo every year or two paying the price for premium ammo but not for some one whom shoots as much as I do. I have seen guys that use the .223 and 22-250 for deer (some very efficient and some not) so I guess it comes down to the preference and ability of the hunter. I personally would not use these cal. for deer but that once again thatis just personal preference. Then again many may say that using a 7 mm mag for deer is overkill. The size of deer a person is hunting is also a consideration whichI believe should beseen as a factor.I was watching a hunting show the other night and the hunter commented, "What a huge bodied deer, it must be at least 220lbs. on the hoof.". Up north that body size deer would be seen as less than average. It is not uncommon, where I am hunting in Canada to have deer 250lbs. dressed so for me the 7 mm mag is not over kill.

Dumper....

Would figure you from WV anyway, had you not listed your AO...simply by your ability to tout your own stupidity.

Heard y'all walk in a circle, unavoidably, on flat ground..........

To help you with that word, click here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=unavoidably

The 85g TSX, generically refered to me as an "X", is one of my favorites.

Sourced from Midway, as an example, runs a whopping 58 cents apiece.

Driven at 3000 fps MV it can be zero'd at 250 yards less any worry on hold over.

Drive turrets past 250 and dealing death is easy.........

Your showing your own stupidity with your comments.

HEAD0001,

You are spot on with your post. I handload Nosler Partitions in every fast shooting (7mm-s.t.w, 7mm-r.u.m., 300-win mag & 340-weatherby) hunting rifle I own.
I do this because I want the bullet to stay together at close range. I use hornady & sierra bullets in all of my other rifles.

I have seen aSierra game king bullet fragment on impact at close range. The deer still died, but the front should looked like it got hit with a hand gernade.