Put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.
You order and pay for new rings. The ones you receive have been sent to someone who left them laying around for a month or 4 then returned them to the company that you bought them from. You paid list price, are you happy?

My wife was there when I packaged themto send it back, and will attest to their zero rust condition. She got an email when he sent me that nasty PM I excerpted from above, found the thread I posted, and wanted to respond to his lie herself.

Doug,

Why did you start another thread for this? Is there something in the other two threads you started that you don't want others to read.......like the truth?

Doug's other two threads that containthe rest of the story.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1487497&mpage=1&key=&#148788 6
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1487498&mpage=1&key=&#148790 2

Let's just stick to the facts, nothing but the facts. First of all you did not speak to me on the phone, you talked to JW about your return. He came to me asking if we could make an exception to our policy because of your circumstance (not having the gun or whatever the deal was). I told JW, sure, its no big deal as long as they are just like we sent them to him. JW told you that we would make an exception and give you a full refund if they are just like we sent them to you. You said they were, which was a lie because when we sent them to you they had their original packaging, no buggered up screws and no surface rust. I don't know or care how they got the rust on them. I do know how the screws got messed up and its odd that you left that part out on the phone. How could you mess up the screw if you could not install them?

Burris Z rings, as anyone knows that has used them and anyone claiming to be a gunsmith should know, are built to exact Weaver rail specifications and have a rigid one piece design where they connect to the base. A sub standard base that is not exact Weaver spec will be too wide. Even a rough parkarized finish can cause the base to be too wide. The easiest thing to do, to compensate for this is to spread the bottom of the ring a tad making it wider so that it will fit your out of spec base. Then slide it on and tighten it with a screw driver bit that properly fits the slot.

This is why I don't handle customer service because I take it too personal. I don't appreciate the attitude, out right lies and don't respond well to threats. We bend over backwards for our customers but there are some people that you just can't make happy no matter what you do. I apologize for calling you a cry baby.

Now, back to the facts. Our receiving department opens all returns and makes notes as to what they are missing and their condition. They have no clue as to why they are returned or anything. Theirjob is to simply observe and note. And their notes pertaining to your return read, "missing packaging, surface rust and damaged screws – NO/RTI". This tells the customer service contact you dealt with how to proceed. At this point we should have sent them back to you because you lied about their condition. But our customer service is so good and we wanted to keep you as a customer, we opted to just have you pay a 15% re-stocking fee. We could not sell them as new and could not sell as used and make any money because our price on them new is too close to cost. The 15% allows us to sell them at new cost and not lose money.

When JW told you about their condition and the restocking fee, I actually thought you would be tickled pink that you were able to return a damaged, missing package product 4 months later and only lose a few bucks. Heck, not even Wal-Mart would have taken them back. In fact I blame Wal-Mart for the current mentality of most consumers. They feel they can use and abuse stuff and just take it back fora refund. Well, we ain't Wal-Mart and we don't have their kinda money or resources to take those kinda loses. Wal-Mart's buying power is so strong, they can just send back their returns for credit to the manufacturer......Burris would have just laughed at us if we were to send them your rings with the story of how we took them back.

As most people that have been "called out" or proven wrong you try to grasp onto and focus on one issue and yours seems to be the rust. So, let’s just pretend for the sake of arguing that they did not have any rust, because it was minor and came off with a tooth brush and oil. Understand that our receiving department will note anything and everything that they see as damage. They even note when the little silica gel pack is missing or twisty ties on plastic bags. Like I said before, how they rusted is beside the point……………. but after staying in a Holiday Inn Express last night and watching CSI, I have came to the conclusion that it was caused by a drastic change in temperature and humidity on their flight back homecombined with the bubble wrap packaging creating its own atmosphere and perpetuated by the presence of oil from your finger prints (stole that one from DM).

FACTS:
1. You had them for 4 months.
2. You lied about their condition (missing packaging and damaged screws).
3. You threatened us.
4. You purposely and knowingly posted aslanted rendition of the facts in an attempt to cost us business.
5. I called you a cry baby.

Riflescopes, lets me give you some free advise I won't even charge ya for. Whenever something like this arrises, just let it pass or bend to the will of the customer (especially for this case for the few dollars). Its never good to try to defend yourself. Take the republican approach to it. Just let bad news run its course. If you acknowlege it, its going to take alot of work and talk to fix it.

One because most of us here has dealt with salespeople and sooner or later got the wrong end of the stick. That works against you.

Just one mans opinion.

Excellent explanation Chris!

Yea I must say that Bigcountry is correct(hurts me to agree with him).You may bein the right here but the more I read you post the more I wonder why someone with a company like yours is going thru all of this hasslefor a few bucks and fueling Doug to find more websites to post about this.

Honestly the more I read your kinda smartass post the more it turns me off to what you are selling. Even if I thought you are totally in the right in this discussion, months from now all I'll remember of this arguement is that guy from Riflescopes.com is kinda a smartass.

I"ve heard nothing but good things about your company before this and think you havea great optics forum over ther but think you should be above this one on one arguement stuff. The original post would have been forgotten about by now instead of ingrained in everyones memory about Doug not being happy with you guys. His orignal post wasnt clear enough for me to understand exaclty how he was even screwed over when I first read it. At first I justthought he shoulda spent more time making sure hewas purchasing the correct stuff andyouguyshad a 15% restocking fee whichto me is no bigdeal. Now its asagafilled with annoying emotioncons on all your posts and Doug still doesnt have his scope rings.

I opened another thread because the first one was locked. Make sense?

I thought YOU were JW, so I'm mistaken there. You didn't post a name. At least I am honest.

Now, you say"the screws were damaged." First, it was the rings were rusty, now the screws were "damaged." So the story changes AGAIN.

Yes, I had them for four months because initially I was told the inserts would help with my sighting problem. Then when I called to order the proper rings for my adjustment (I mistakenly thought some came with the rings), I was told my gun was too far off for ANY size ring you sell to work. So I concluded I wasn't going to get my shotgun working for rifle season (this was mid November), and figured I would get a cantilever rifled barrel when I could get the cash to do so after shgotgun season, not knowing I should order them immediately because the rings wouldn't fit as advertised and the window for returning them was closing.

I got my cantilever rifled barrel in a few weeks ago, and the rings didn't fit. The rings I got were "Weaver Style," and the barrel has a "Weaver Style" mount. Nevertheless, the ringswere slightly too narrow and wouldn't fit. I will gladly PM anyone here interested the email of my hunting buddy who hs years of experience with guns, tried to put them on and will tell you they didn't fit.

I called JW BEFORE I sent them back and explained the entire situation, including when I bought the rings. He pulled up the order so saw it himself. However, HE DIDN'T SAY A SINGLE WORD about the return policy precluding me from a refund. Instead, he said send them back for a full refund. So I did.

It is one thing if I had them on a gun working for four months, or being used for that time, but they sat unused on my work bench for that time, and that's probably why he didn't even think to mention anything about the return policy.But that's not even the point. I was told I'd get a refund, and instead got a lie about their condition and no full refund.

I didn't lie about packaging, I admitted I lost the plastic backing, but the other piece was with the return.

I only posted here to warn others about the service so they wouldn't have a similar problem. If money was the issue, I would have shopped the rings and found a cheaper source. I found you guys first and was in a hurry thinking I could have the gun working by shotgun season. In fact, I was going to buy replacement rings that did work from you after being credited for my return until I got lied to.

I'm finished discussing this. Others see the character of service at riflescopes.com, so I've done what I set out to do. And yes, I did post on another hunting forum to warn other fellow hunters. Good luck getting sales fromthe "high traffic" as you claim.

bigcounty,

Point taken. I agree with you. I'll start taking the republican approach.
But its hard to just sit back and let someone damage your reputation with out telling your side. I know from a company stand point, its the right thing to do.

Duckbutter48,

Your right too, but its not you being slandered. I added the smileys to make it not come off as smart-aleck. Tried to add a little humor because this whole thing is so silly.

My problem is taking things like this personally. Our family built this business from the ground up, its the only job I've ever had. I was working in our gun store in the 70'swhen I was old enough to properly count change. We've worked hard for a long time to have excellent customer service and it really gets to me when someone does as Doug has done.

I realize after all the post on his other two threads and thePM's I'm getting that ya'll realize we have good customer service.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Hopefully (for us), all the others unfortunate enough to have to read all this, can understand where I'm coming from. My intent was not to be a smart-aleck at all, just to provide our side of the story in a way that was somewhat fun to read (I thought it was funny at least).

I left out the little smiley guys this time. I usually use them so that readers can tell the mood of the post and it helps make things not so serious. I like this place, its got tons of useful information. I know I'm new around here and the new guy gets beat up some because ya'll don't know my personality and see me as an outsider but give me a chance.

Chris

I will say that I agree with BC that nobody ever really wins a mud slingin contest, but I will also say that I cant think of anyone else that would take a return after 4 months. I have always been in business for myself so I can understand rs.com taking it personally. Its always good to see an owner or employee step up and defend their work or try to provide an explaination as to the reason things happened.

As easy as it would have been to let it pass without response its a danged if you do danged if you dont deal....

Actually can probably blame cabela's. They will take anything back at any time for the most part. Depending on how you return it will determin the amount of refund you get. They will actually tell you to try something out for a while, and if you don't like it just return it. As long as it isn't all messed up and you still have the reciept and original packaging you will get all your money back. Of course in a case like above without the packaging and marred up screws you wouldn't get full price back from them either, even if you walked into the store with them. I don't know how it would work thru the mail. I do know that I tried 4 different scopes in a month or so until I found one I was happy with and they didn't have a problem with it. It worked out to their advantage anyway since I ended up spending twice as much in the long run.

Being that I have never met you or the other guy and did not see the product myself I have no comment on the actual situation. I don't blame you for not wanting to be bad mouthed though. And I will agree with the others that this sure is a lot of effort and stress on both parties for a freakin' set of scope mounts.

Paul