So crossbow are legal now......
07-19-2010 | 08:16 PM
#461
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
From: Kentucky
I asked you specifically if you had a bolt and arrow wieghing the same with the same drag, same fletch would the bolt loose KE and speed faster. You said yes. Remember. You then said there is no way both could have the same drag. This is correct, if that was the case, a set of arrows would all loose energy different.
Ok, lets start there. Do you agree with these equations? If you do agree, these are the basics for Newtons law. These are the basics and start for bernoulli's equation and fluid and gas dynamics.
KE=mv^2
V=Vo+aT
A=F/m
F=d/dt*(mv)
Fd=1/2*p*u^2*Cd*A(area, not accel)
Drag Force Equation (Blevins, 2003 and Munson et al., 1998 and others)
F = 0.5 C ρA V2
Notation
(ft=feet, g=gram, hr=hour, kg=kilogram, lb=Pound (force), m=meter, N=Newton, s=second)
Our calculation allows you to use a variety of units with all of the conversions completed internally. The units below are consistent units for the drag force equation.
A = Reference area as (see figures above), m2.
C = Drag coefficient (see figures above), unitless.
F = Drag force, N.
V = Velocity, m/s.
ρ = Density of fluid (liquid or gas), kg/m3.
Acceleration is a function of the sum of drag coef. of both air of an arrow in flight and arrow itself. In other words, its negative, it never gains speed after it leaves the string. Acc is positive as the Fstring is pushing on the arrow or bolt until it release that arrow or bolt. If both projectiles have the same drag as shown with the Fd (force of drag), it is phsically impossible for the bolt to drop quicker. Unless in the article the bolt is heavier, fatter diameter, fatter head, larger fletch (i.e. more drag). And it could be. The only thing that could get the bolt to drop faster is gravity due to more wieght or more drag.
So in the article did they claim to have the same wieght, same diameter shaft, same fletch same point? Its that simple. Work with me. Does it specify?
I promise, I will not be rude, I will not call you dumb, I will treat you with respect, I will work out this problem and prove to you with elementary math and well known and accepted physics. Just work with me. What makes this arthor so much more an authority on this?
Ok, lets start there. Do you agree with these equations? If you do agree, these are the basics for Newtons law. These are the basics and start for bernoulli's equation and fluid and gas dynamics.
KE=mv^2
V=Vo+aT
A=F/m
F=d/dt*(mv)
Fd=1/2*p*u^2*Cd*A(area, not accel)
Drag Force Equation (Blevins, 2003 and Munson et al., 1998 and others)
F = 0.5 C ρA V2
Notation
(ft=feet, g=gram, hr=hour, kg=kilogram, lb=Pound (force), m=meter, N=Newton, s=second)
Our calculation allows you to use a variety of units with all of the conversions completed internally. The units below are consistent units for the drag force equation.
A = Reference area as (see figures above), m2.
C = Drag coefficient (see figures above), unitless.
F = Drag force, N.
V = Velocity, m/s.
ρ = Density of fluid (liquid or gas), kg/m3.
Acceleration is a function of the sum of drag coef. of both air of an arrow in flight and arrow itself. In other words, its negative, it never gains speed after it leaves the string. Acc is positive as the Fstring is pushing on the arrow or bolt until it release that arrow or bolt. If both projectiles have the same drag as shown with the Fd (force of drag), it is phsically impossible for the bolt to drop quicker. Unless in the article the bolt is heavier, fatter diameter, fatter head, larger fletch (i.e. more drag). And it could be. The only thing that could get the bolt to drop faster is gravity due to more wieght or more drag.
So in the article did they claim to have the same wieght, same diameter shaft, same fletch same point? Its that simple. Work with me. Does it specify?
I promise, I will not be rude, I will not call you dumb, I will treat you with respect, I will work out this problem and prove to you with elementary math and well known and accepted physics. Just work with me. What makes this arthor so much more an authority on this?
It says this about the arrow....Most manufacturers suggest arrows that are over 400 grains. There is so much energy transferred in a launch that the shorter arrow must be heavier to withstand the force.
I knew you would question the authors credentials. I can't tell you but maybe you can write and ask. All I know is I have read the same thing in other places. It's just a misconception many have that the xbow is a 100 yard weapon. It's just part of the ignorance people have about the xbow and xbow hunter.
I just hope we can get over the lazy slob stuff and respect them as fellow hunters. Thats all.
07-19-2010 | 08:24 PM
#462
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: S.Illinois
Not much of this makes sense but OK.....And by the way the xbow does have it's own season....and it just got longer in many places and will get longer in others soon.
Plus, why is it up to you why anyone would choose to become a hunter. Shouldn't that be up to them ?
Plus, why is it up to you why anyone would choose to become a hunter. Shouldn't that be up to them ?
Didn't say it should be up tp me,but if you think that any nut job that wants to kill something should be welcomed to come hunt,I hate to tell you,that is one of ANTI-HUNTERS biggest logs on their fire!
But you obviously don't comprehend very well,so theres no way you will comprehend the FACTS that BC is showing you.
07-19-2010 | 08:28 PM
#463
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
From: Kentucky
I respect your idea of what a archer is but that doesn't mean you have more rights than other hunters. It doesnt have to change the way you do anything. Keep slinging those arrows. Have a good season.
07-19-2010 | 08:30 PM
#464
Guest
Posts: n/a
Xbow hunters can't take an arrow out of my quiver and expect it to work like it does from my bow. Like I stated the xbow will drop faster and doesn't have the range a vertical bow does.
It says this about the arrow....Most manufacturers suggest arrows that are over 400 grains. There is so much energy transferred in a launch that the shorter arrow must be heavier to withstand the force.
I knew you would question the authors credentials. I can't tell you but maybe you can write and ask. All I know is I have read the same thing in other places. It's just a misconception many have that the xbow is a 100 yard weapon. It's just part of the ignorance people have about the xbow and xbow hunter.
All that said, the drag equation stays the same, it does not change. Look at the equation. Area, (frontal and length), the bolt has shorther length and less area. Ever wonder why boattail bullet has higher BC than a solid point? The compound even has significantly more archers paradox. This is fact. I can show you slow mo videos of both on youtube. This oscillations is loss of KE and favors a short projectile. I mean the science says it all better than I can.
Look at it, its a thing of beauty. I can't take credit for it. Wish I did. The F=ma seems so simplistic today, but in Newtons time, they really struggled with it.
Drag Force Equation
F = 0.5 C ρA V2
Notation
(ft=feet, g=gram, hr=hour, kg=kilogram, lb=Pound (force), m=meter, N=Newton, s=second)
Our calculation allows you to use a variety of units with all of the conversions completed internally. The units below are consistent units for the drag force equation.
A = Reference area as (see figures above), m2.
C = Drag coefficient (see figures above), unitless.
F = Drag force, N.
V = Velocity, m/s.
ρ = Density of fluid (liquid or gas), kg/m3.
07-19-2010 | 08:33 PM
#465
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
From: SE PA
So far my experience with crossbows is that is has been a tremendous "gateway drug" for my friends. They have started out with the xbow.....then decided they wanted to try a compound......and eventually most have ended up shooting traditional. They get hooked because it is an easier weapon to get to know since they started out with rifles, then they want to try other things. I am up for it if it promotes our sport in the proper light and gets people out in the woods that typically would not get out (again....as long as they promote the sport in the right way).
07-19-2010 | 08:34 PM
#466
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
From: Kentucky
Well maybe in ky,but not here!
Didn't say it should be up tp me,but if you think that any nut job that wants to kill something should be welcomed to come hunt,I hate to tell you,that is one of ANTI-HUNTERS biggest logs on their fire!
But you obviously don't comprehend very well,so theres no way you will comprehend the FACTS that BC is showing you.
Didn't say it should be up tp me,but if you think that any nut job that wants to kill something should be welcomed to come hunt,I hate to tell you,that is one of ANTI-HUNTERS biggest logs on their fire!
But you obviously don't comprehend very well,so theres no way you will comprehend the FACTS that BC is showing you.
07-19-2010 | 08:44 PM
#467
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Likes: 0
So far my experience with crossbows is that is has been a tremendous "gateway drug" for my friends. They have started out with the xbow.....then decided they wanted to try a compound......and eventually most have ended up shooting traditional. They get hooked because it is an easier weapon to get to know since they started out with rifles, then they want to try other things. I am up for it if it promotes our sport in the proper light and gets people out in the woods that typically would not get out (again....as long as they promote the sport in the right way).
I heard somewhere that all crossbow hunters were wreckless slobs that you had to watch out for while in the woods so you didn't get shot and were out there just to kill anything.
07-19-2010 | 08:46 PM
#468
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
From: SE PA
WHAT?????? You mean to tell us that you actually know people that started out with a crossbow as their first bow and then progressed to other archery equipment? That can't be possible. You must be lying.
07-19-2010 | 08:59 PM
#470
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: S.Illinois
Maybe it's because your sentence structure make what you say almost incomprehensible. Why do you say they are all nut jobs ? You know everyone that picks up a xbow I guess. Only the sane ones use a bow or gun I guess. Also I have seen zero facts....they have all been opinion like yours.
NEVER said they were all nut jobs!
NEVER said you had to be insane to use one!
NEVER said,that anything I posted was based on fact! (experience maybe but not fact)