How difficult is a longbow or selfbow? Curious as to your own experiences.

So you are telling me that you believe nothing you read from other members on this forum ? When they relate personal experiece that means nothing ? Im not asking about someone picking one of their products but just guys talking about hunting.

What if 50 guys said product y was a piece of junk and they have nothing but trouble from it. Would you call them liars?

We are not talking about Elvis sightings or USO abductions. We are talking about your fellow hunters that say they have used both xbows and regular bows. It's not like there is great debate among them...they all say the same thing. That the two very similar in the range a deer can be killed and the xbow isn't the huge advantage that some think.

Either you are very untrusting of your fellow hunters or you just do not wish to admit the truth because you have dug this hole of denial and cant get out.

I have an old Bear recurve I think is made in the 50's. I haven't worked with it much but I can tell it's much tougher to shoot than a compound. I give you guys that shoot these bows respect for your dedication. It takes more work to use one. I hope to be able to put more time in with it soon and maybe take a deer with it. Also I do woodowrking and would love to make my own. I know a guy that lives bow building. I may work with him so he can give me some pointers.

Rarely. Everybody has thier spin. Let me give you an example. When building bows, many a bowyer swears that TitebondIII is great for bamboo backed IPE. Burniegoeasy on here love it. Marc Stlouis thinks its the cats meow. I mean these guys are at the top of thier game. I have used it. And had severe trouble of glue creep. I mean proof is in the pudding. Recently talked to Dean Torges, one of the most well know traditional bow makers, swears off TBIII too. Only use urac. I agree with him. I respect burnie a lot. But even burnie will shrug his shoulders and say, use what works. Many a bowyer swears that black locust sucks as bow wood. I have had nothing but good things to say about it. What am I going to do? Go with my own experiences, or keep doing what everyone else says?

If I have no experience with product Y, I would take them at thier word. But my own experience trumps this.

But see, I personally know plenty of arrowgun shooters who will put on a big grin and tell you they can now reliably shoot 50-60 yards on game but couldn't before with compounds. I thought they were just blowhards. I shot thier freakin arrowguns, and was shocked how easy it is to hit 5" groups at 60 yards. I have shot compounds since the 80's and never could just pick up someone elses compound and bang out 5" groups at 60 yards over and over. It was shocking. Now, I have my person experience, and verified thiers. I bet now, I couldn't pick up my own compound and nail 5" groups at 60 yards without extensive work at that range.

I agree 100%.heck HHA advertises there xbow site to give you 4" groups at 80 yards don't know of any bow sight maker the will advertise how many inches your groups will be!
But as ol'e kybucky wants to say there's no differance between bows and xbows.
just about anyone could pick up an arrowgun and shoot it,but it takes time and practice to shoot a bow long,recurve,or compound and that is why I would say they are more dangerous then bows,its the same reason that there are so many accidents during gun season,it takes very little practice sometimes none for alot of yahoo's to run out in the woods to be the next great hunter,and those are the kinda people i'd rather not see in the woods.
Thats the reason I rarely deer hunt in gun season anymore!

First of all friend...my argument isn't if a xbow is easier to learn and shoot. I could care less about this. I don't care. It doesn't matter in the least. I want everyone in the woods to be able to shoot well and put a good shot on the deer.

Now....just because I can shoot an arrow into a target 70-80-100 yards doesn't mean that's a good range to shoot deer. Some guys out West commonly shoot deer 60 plus yards with a compound. It is also a proven fact that the xbow loses energy fast than a compound bow. It's just a fact of physics. Kinetic energy can be figured as sure as the rotation of the earth can be calculated a 100 year in the future. It's a simple fact of mathematics. You can argue and stomp and say what you like but facts are facts. A 22 rifle bullet can travel over a mile....how far do you think the effective killing range is?

Also you throw out the "there are so many accidents during gun season." Thats not true at all. Hunting is very safe....gun hunting is very safe.

I'll bite, this is just my game. So your trying to say if you have a 400gr bolt shooting 320fps and a 400gr arrow shooting 320fps, both with the same size fletch and point, same diameter, same dragCoef, you believe the bolt will loose speed faster????

Explain this physics. I graduated with a MS in engineering, so maybe you can teach me something. I am all ears.

By the way, I get complete pass thrus with a 500gr arrow traveling at 170fps out of the shoot with 5.5" turkey feather fletch.

Well then, if you are as smart as you claim then you will know that the power stroke is much shorter on a xbow ...you agree with that ? You do remember ...work = force x distance. The crossbow stores up more energy per-inch of power stroke.... because of the heavier draw weights.... the compound bow makes up for it by drawing back a lighter weight, but over a longer distance.

They may have similar kinetic but in the end the bow wins out over the longer range. Thats also why you use a heavy arrow out of you slow bow and can still get pass through. A heavy arrow stores more energy with the longer power stroke....you happy with that....???

Ok, bigboy, you stepped in it. Yes, you are right about stroke, but forgot most arrowguns are 150-200lbs in that stroke. Hense the reason 350fps is possible with some of them. You will never see too many compounds 150lb of draw. I have shot warbows 130lbs at 32". But not the norm for hunting.

If both have the same drag coef, same wieght, same fletch, both will hit the target with the exact KE at thier target. I can prove it with whatever dynamics/statics book you wish. You just showed your hand. Thank you. You know the university in Louisville is an ok school. I highly suggest you don't miss admissions for the fall calculus classes.

No, a heavy arrow does not store up more energy. KE is the square of velocity. A bow can only store so much energy. Light or heavy, it remains the same. Only exception to this is a bow is more efficient with heavier arrows.

What increase is momentum. Look it up. Momentum is weight dominated equation where KE is velocity dominated. Momentum is not energy, and energy is not momentum. How have you gotten thru life this far

The only thing I stepped in was the truth....Sure if the xbow shot the same drag coef, same weight, same fletch, they would hit with the same KE but you want to leave out the power stroke and the fact they don't shoot the same. Thats very important.

In the real world with real hunting equipment the KE in similar because the xbow is more pounds of weight with a short stroke and the bow has a long stroke with less weight. You know as well as I do the bow has a slight better downrange energy because of this. Also the shorter arrow is harder to steer at the longer range.

Why is it the speed bows have a short brace. I bet you know...come on. They store more energy because the arrow stays on the string longer.

Why is it you only want to tell part of the facts....?? You are too embarrassed to admit I'm 100 % right. Now one again show me how the xbow is so much better at along range over the compound.

I hope it's not too late to get your money back from your engineering class.

Ok, here's the deal, the power stroke doesn't matter if you can achieve launch at the exact same velocity. How hard is that to freakin understand, even for you????? Most arrowguns are kicking arrows out at 300+ fps same as most compounds these days. Both the bolts and arrows wiegh about the same. Again, I am going to ask. How does the power stroke increase KE when they wiegh the same, and shoot the same velocity???? You know your looking like a idiot don't ya?

No, I don't know. If they both have the exact same drag, wieght and velocity, how is it possible for a bolt to have less energy???? You don't know.

Goodness gracious your making Kentuckians look bad. I will repeat, if they have the same velocity launched, and same wieght, and same drag, it doesn't freakin matter. If I could miracle an arrow to 350fps with a 6" throw compared to another guys who could get the same arrow to 350fps with an 18" throw, it doesn't freakin matter. Holy cow, please tell me you didn't have kids!!!!

Dude, honestly, your not getting it. You said, an arrow gun bolt would have lower KE. Now, you want to try to change it??? Good news here is everyone can see who is the liar.