Bogobble, I am not a spokesperson for P/Y, but I do hunt within there perameters and if I have the oppurutunity to bag a trophy I know that I can qualify, but I am sure a person can read into the by-laws and maybe change them in there favor and yes that one in not drawing back at full draw is true, this is how P/Y and defines it , " The maximum let-off on a compound shall be measured at a point in the draw cycle after the peak draw weight has been attained. It shall be measured near the end of the draw cycle where the minimum holding force is reached. This point in the draw cycle of a compound is known as " the bottom of the the valley." Determination of the percent of let-off: The values of the peak draw force and the let-off force shall be used to calculated the percent let-off. The peak force is the maximum force obtained dureing the draw cycle. The let-off force is the lowest force reached following the peak force during a single uninterrupted draw cycle. In all cases, both the highest and lowest force shall be read from a scale during a single and continual pull conditional, without relaxtion. This technique eliminates the introduction of hysteresis, which can distort reading.

Percent of let-off =
100x (Peak Draw Force-Minimum Holding force)
Peak Draw Force

The nominal percent of let-off for hunting bow shall be a maximum of 65%. It is recognized that variations in draw length and/or draw weight can affect the percent of let-off on compound bows. For these reasons minor variations in let-off are acceptable.

If you are within a 5% tolerance, I think you can qualify. If you could care less about a P/Y then don' t bother applying. For the trophy hunters on this board , these are the standards that we are govererned by and if a person can' t meet this criteria, then don' t play.
Bobby

99% of the time I' m in the woods, it' s with a stickbow. The other 1% is with a compound that is 65% letoff, or one of my old ones that is 50%.

And I have to ask.... IF shooting an 80% letoff bow is no more difficult than shooting a 65% bow, then the reverse must also be true. That 80% letoff is no easier to shoot than 65%. So, if there is no difference between them, then why even have 80% letoff bows on the market? Why would someone buy one if there is no advantage to them?

Plain and simple, they ARE easier in one very important aspect. They are easier to hold at full draw for extended periods, waiting for a deer that' s coming in to present a shot. Being at full draw, cocked and locked, and not having to draw in the immediate presence of game, in other words. Isn' t that allowing a ' bowhunter' to use his bow exactly like a crossbow?

Every time I draw one of those high letoff pieces of junk in a shop, I can' t hardly let the stinkin' thing down! I get locked in at full draw and can' t move. It' s almost like I have to push the string to get it to move forward. So don' t try to tell me that holding for a long time isn' t what it' s all about.

That is why high letoff bows are crossbow-lites. And you guys shooting them are standing at the door, rolling out the red carpet for crossbows in our bow seasons. The line was drawn at 65% just to because of that problem. If you don' t believe it, pick up a copy of the Fifth Edition of Bowhunting Records for North American Big Game. It' s a very good article where Dave Holt is interviewing Fred Asbell. All the reasoning is laid out in black and white.

again, that is a rediculus statement! there is NO comparison. they are NOT even close to being in the same league as a xbow.

another rediculus statement! man, your so rediculus it' s rediculus!

anyhow, if that' s the case, then bring the xbows on. I' ll even roll out the carpet[8D]
oh, forgot, the carpet has already been rolled out here in Ar. xbows are perfectly legal durin archery season here. and that' s the way it should be!

all you guys that want to put restrictions on xbows and high letoff bows, should join the anti gun organizations, and start there, and work your way down to bows in the future.

121, I ain' t playin no more! I' m takin my bow and I' m goin home!

My point of view is not ridiculous. It even makes it stronger and more valid when someone that favors the use of crossbows in bow season tries to deride it. Thank you.[:-]

First, I think P&Y has a right to make whatever rules they want for their club record book, regardless of how stupid or self-serving they may be. Frankly, shooting a nice big buck would give me more of a thrill than knowing that it " qualified" for P&Y simply on the basis that the let-off on my compound was 65% or less. Second, I never have understood the hang-up with going greater than 65% on let-off. (Having said that, my SQ2 is 65% let-off). Having shot both crossbows and compounds, let me tell you there is ZERO comparison! Crossbow shoots much more like a gun in slow motion than a bow. A bow with greater let-off does have some advantages, but you still have to perform the three most difficult tasks: draw it, hold it and make the shot. Yes, it is easier to hold, but how many people hold their bow at full draw for more than a few seconds?

I do think some at P&Y have motives that are other than " keeping bowhunting pure" . I have spoken with a couple of the members who are part of the rulemaking process and there does appear to be an undertone of " Hey, the bow I shot mine with in 1980-whatever was a club compared to what you guys use now!" . To that my response is that we should then also outlaw the following: carbon and aluminum arrows,
titanium broadheads
mechanical broadheads
plastic vanes on arrows
graphite risers and limbs
single-cam compounds...heck, lets disqualify compound bows altogether!
rests other than simple ledge rests.

While we' re at it...

baiting...amazingly, THIS is Okay but >65% let-off is not.
Scentlok...or other products that give bowhunters an " unfair advantage" over the game
treestands
buck lures of all types
food plots
hunting near agricultural fields


Heck, we have to really tighten the definition of " fair chase" now don' t we?

All I know is that I sure hope the anti' s who want to kill bowhunting aren' t reading this because they will be grinning from ear to ear !

I disagree, Proff. As long as we are talking freely and openly about things like this, then maybe some day we can come to some kind of understanding. And when we can police ourselves, then the anti' s won' t have anything to go on except their philosophical opposition to hunting. It frightens them when we are talking frankly about our equipment.

Arthur P, I should have stated it a little different. I agree that we can talk open and freely about the equipment issues and difference in hunting methods, and that is fine. But when it starts getting to where it turns into the heated ripping about what I shoot vs. what you shoot, i.e. traditional vs. compound vs. crossbow etc. When we start arguing in a mean spirited way and start causing divisions, then we are battling amongst ourselves as a group instead of battling the other side of the issue. Hope you see what I meant. I just was afraid that that I was seeing the beginning of another ugly thread of my way vs. your way. Those issues can be good when they are played out and discussed in a civil way. but you know as well as I do that sometimes that doesn' t happen on the forums. Human nature I guess. Hope you understand what I was getting at. Just kind of tired of seeing threads where we are on the same side and have to bash each other instead of discussing things politely. We need to save that for antis

When you put it in that context, Proff, I agree 100%. But whenever this kind of P&Y 65% thing starts, I feel compelled to point out that there is a generous helping of hypocracy being dished up if you are opposed to crossbows but think there should be absolutely NO limits on bows and the existing P&Y restrictions are ' stupid.'