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If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

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If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

Old 03-22-2008, 10:16 PM
  #21  
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

ORIGINAL: Hoytail Hunter

And wouldn't that just make sense? Let me explain:

According to this video link: http://www.prorelease.com/xring.aspx?action=1
A BH shot out ofa tunedbow willNEVER EVER hit the exact same spot as a FP shot out of that same bow. In the video link, tests are done out of a shooting machine on various BH's. The tests were controlled and variables eliminated.None ofthe BH's testedhit the same as where theFP hit. Some were only an inch off while others were as much as 4 or more inches off.

This begs the question: Are all of the people in the archery world who claim their BH's hit where their FP's do, just telling themselves that they actually hit the same spot?

I can't imagine any law of physics or science that will allow 2 objects of different shape, size, and aerodynamics to fly the exact same way. I think when people claim that their BH's and FP's hit the same, it is because they hit close enough within an inch or two that they just concede it is so.

Here'sthe out of tune theory: Guys have perfectly tuned bows to begin with when they are shooting FP's. They then screw on a BH and find that the poi is now 4 inches low. At this point they begin de-tuning their bows ever so slightly so that the poi of the BH and the FP meet at the halfway mark. This is the only way I can see them hitting together.

What do you think?

I have not read all this but I have seen the video before and all they say they did was paper tune,THAT IS NOT TUNING.


I assure you that a PROPERLY tuned bow will have quality broadheads and fieldpoints hitting very close to the same.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

ORIGINAL: TFOX

ORIGINAL: Hoytail Hunter

And wouldn't that just make sense? Let me explain:

According to this video link: http://www.prorelease.com/xring.aspx?action=1
A BH shot out ofa tunedbow willNEVER EVER hit the exact same spot as a FP shot out of that same bow. In the video link, tests are done out of a shooting machine on various BH's. The tests were controlled and variables eliminated.None ofthe BH's testedhit the same as where theFP hit. Some were only an inch off while others were as much as 4 or more inches off.

This begs the question: Are all of the people in the archery world who claim their BH's hit where their FP's do, just telling themselves that they actually hit the same spot?

I can't imagine any law of physics or science that will allow 2 objects of different shape, size, and aerodynamics to fly the exact same way. I think when people claim that their BH's and FP's hit the same, it is because they hit close enough within an inch or two that they just concede it is so.

Here'sthe out of tune theory: Guys have perfectly tuned bows to begin with when they are shooting FP's. They then screw on a BH and find that the poi is now 4 inches low. At this point they begin de-tuning their bows ever so slightly so that the poi of the BH and the FP meet at the halfway mark. This is the only way I can see them hitting together.

What do you think?

I have not read all this but I have seen the video before and all they say they did was paper tune,THAT IS NOT TUNING.


I assure you that a PROPERLY tuned bow will have quality broadheads and fieldpoints hitting very close to the same.
But... its not possible to get them to hit exactly the same.

Ever.


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Old 03-22-2008, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

I am not going to argue that point either way,I have seen them hit the same HOLE out of a machine at short distances but at further distances,drag will take effect and the broadhead tipped arrow will hit lower.


This isn't the norm though.Human element and setups do play a role.That is why I said close and quality.

Things like PERFECT spine,helical feathers,good foc,clean releases(loops),along with centershot.vertical and horizontal all play a role.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

By close,I do mean MUCH closer than the video protrays.

Remeber that these kinds of test and machines are only as accurate as the person doing the setup and testing.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

Don't misunderstand, TFOX.

My post was completely sarcastic.

I know what I can do out of my bows with my arrows and my broadheads, but apparently I'm a liar or something, because it just isn't possible without having to "detune" your bow.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter

Don't misunderstand, TFOX.

My post was completely sarcastic.

I know what I can do out of my bows with my arrows and my broadheads, but apparently I'm a liar or something, because it just isn't possible without having to "detune" your bow.

Sorry,didn't mean to come off that way.

I know what is possibe after I get my bows tuned without ever screwing a broadhead on,what makes them hit VERY close without even moving the rest to get them to do so?

I am not saying it is easy,but it is possible.(Without detuning)


I have hunted with many setups that wouldn't do it,but they were very tuned setups but just not setup to get broadheads and fieldpoints hitting the same,or very close to the same.

I can say this,I can't do it with my setups at my draw length and poundage with a WB.I have my theories as to why but that is enough for ME not to want one on my hunting rig.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

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Well if that's the case I suspect your bow isn't perfectly tuned.

We must tune our bows to our broad heads and hope for the best depending on the broad head we're using.
Here is the other crux of the argument, especially if you want to argue technicalities.

Who shoots a perfectly tuned bow? Is a human capable of tuning a bow perfectly? I don't think so. If they were they wouldn't use machines in this type of test.

You tune your bow to your shooting style and the arrows and heads you are shooting.This is not hoping for the best, it is the process you go through to achieve the best.
I totally agree Mez....We need to tune our broad heads to our bows using our shooting styles. We can get them (broad heads and field tips) close but they will never be perfect.

A machine can never duplicate how an individual shoots but that doesn't change physics. There is a lot of other factors at play when you talk field tips and broad heads two different animals all together.




I know what is possibe after I get my bows tuned without ever screwing a broadhead on,what makes them hit VERY close without even moving the rest to get them to do so?

I am not saying it is easy,but it is possible.(Without detuning)


I have hunted with many setups that wouldn't do it,but they were very tuned setups but just not setup to get broadheads and fieldpoints hitting the same,or very close to the same.

I can say this,I can't do it with my setups at my draw length and poundage with a WB.I have my theories as to why but that is enough for ME not to want one on my hunting rig.
TFOX,

I agree, some setups just seem to "come together" and you can get the broadheads and field tips to shoot close with just tuning your bow with field tips. I have found better results by tuning my bow like normal (field tips) then retuning, detuning, untuning, (whatever you want to call it) with broadheads. I find the two will shoot closer this way than just tuning for field tips.

Again different setups will yield different results...as you know there are lots of factors at play. But in the end I just don't think they can possible fly the exact same because of the different tips. Close enoughwhere most archers couldn't tell? I believe so, that's why youread a lot of "my broadhead flies the same as my field tips do" posts.The exact same?....don't think so.

Like I said a lot of folks would be VERY surprised if they put their "tuned" bows into a machine and found out exactly how different the two arrows hit.

It's not withthe bows tune or the archerthe problem lies.....it's withthe tips.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:26 PM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

I don't actually believe fixed blades EVER fly like fieldtips,they just don't.They will never be as forgiving to the elements and human error.That is why I choose mechanicals but when I am in the front yard shooting.My setups do usually yield results that would make one think they are the same.VERY close as a matter of fact but when elements like torque and wind are added to the equation,fixed don't do as well as mechanicals and that is why I choose them MOST of the time.


It is just this video is a pure joke,plain and simple.Those are clearly the results of a poorly done test by people that are clueless to how to properly tune a bow.
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:05 AM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

To quote TFOX:
It is just this video is a pure joke,plain and simple.Those are clearly the results of a poorly done test by people that are clueless to how to properly tune a bow.


This is what I was hoping to read when reviewing this thread. The test, as far as I perceive it, is flawed in at least three ways and probably more.

Just this week I proved to customersthat a properly tuned bow,arrow, and archer(s)can shoot fixed broadheads(we used the one that was the worst case in the video test)and fieldtips together and we were doing it at 30 yards; and, we didn't need a machine to do it. When using any machine. always remember - 'garbage in' yields 'garbage out' and field tip shooting/tuning, unless carefully structured, can yield consistent errors which cause disparities in broadhead shooting.

While human error can neverachieve the exacting results of properly setup machines, good consistency can be achieved as long as extensive test criteria is followed with the bow, the arrow, and the archer. When I say "goodconsistency", I mean much better than what is shown in that video.

Happy Easter and good shooting.
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Old 03-23-2008, 05:00 AM
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Default RE: If your BH's and FP's hit the same it means your bow is out of tune!?

I didn't watch the video. Didn't have any reason to because I absolutely agree with their conclusion.
If you tune specifically for best flight and smallest group size with broadheads, thenthe bowwill not shoot FP's to the same POI. If you tune for best flight and smallest group size with FP's, it will not shoot broadheads to the same POI.

I've always lived by the rule that I'm tuning the bow for the specificuse I intend for it and, if/when my intentions change, I retune. For a tournmanet bow, I tune specifically for best flight and smallest groups withFP's.For a hunting bow, when it's tuned to shoot broadheads for best flight and smallest groupsto the best ofmy capability - because a bow can't be tuned better than the shooter's skill allows - it's tuned. PROPERLY tuned for shooting broadheads. Let the FP's fall where they may.

If your goal is to get the bow shooting broadheads and field tips to the same POIand succeed at it, then you can call the bow 'properly tuned' because it meets your requirement. It will likely shoot both types heads adequately, but will not shoot either one to best capability.

Len, I know you remember the days when we often had a broadhead component to many tournaments. We used dovetail mounts and had two sets of sights, one sighted in for field points and the other sighted in for broadheads. Why? Because when our bows were finely tuned for best tournament gradeaccuracy with FP's, they would not shoot BH's to the same POI.

It wasn't until Chuck Adams wanted to make a nickle with his 'tuning kit' that the concept of tuning to get your broadheads and field points together was born.

And the entire reason for it? Convenience. So you don't have to resight your bow when switching back and forth from FP's to BH's. That's it. Nothing mystical, no universe altering revelation, no marvel of modern engineering elegance. Just convenience. It was not and hasnever beenthe end all, be all pinnacle of tuning excellence.
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