1. We are still waiting on a price sheet, but I believe our rep told us around $749.

2. Ummmmmm............I'm digging from memory here.........Yes, I THINK you can, but don't quote me on that one, I'm just not sure. I can find out though, if you don't get that answered.

I'm not sure if you can put a different module on it for >80%, but you can manipulate that feeling with the draw stop.

Hoyt limbs have been tested a 1000 times over the barnsdale so saying the bd's are the standard is an overstatement at best,plus the weakest part of a limb is the v and that has been eliminated with the hoyts but still there on the Barnsdales.,I am not badmouthing the Barnsdales but they are no better than Hoyt's,really not possible imo.

The string issue I agree with but what do we know about the elite strings,have they really been around and have enough out there to know.3 manufactuers already.

I for one never have had problems with hoyt strings but I know a thing or 2 about keeping them from twisting.AS far as the fuse strings,it has never been a material issue,the process was the problem and I hope WAS is a correct word.


Hoyt wouldn't have a problem with the limbs a 3 gpp.The issue would be with strings,cables and axles at that 3 gpi.They test their limbs by dry firing them,they hold up.

I didn't mean to take away from the thread and elite but hoyt was brought into it and just wondered why.

Good points were made but some i just don't agree with.We can move on now.[8D]

Eh, I'm going to overlook it the same way that I do the Pontiac. If only it had a better name on it.

LOL, glance at it, but don't overlook it. [8D]

I was going to say the same thing as well, I just didn't want to waste the time to type this to Fran since he's already got it figured out and all. Both make a fine limb but to say one is better than the other is pure fanboy ignorance and regurgitation of what's been read and heard elsewhere.

And from what I heard, the change from WC didn't have to do pricing, it had a bit more to do with major manufacturing flaws at Elite that were cutting end loops on the string/cables causing bows to come apart on people at full draw, and Elite passing the buck onto WC when the issue was really with the cams. Funny thing is thatElite at least acknowledged the problem enough to fix the problem after production started by using a dremel tool at the factory to modify cams, and then finishing out their production run with these dremel tool modified cams. For a period of time after WC stopped providing strings for Elite, Elite was still claiming they were using WC strings, and as a matter of fact the CEO of Winners Choice had to make a public statment to clear this up for people so that people understood he was no longer supplying strings to them.He didn't want to be associated with them for some reason anymore. The bows continued to fail after Winners Choice stopped supplying them.

Any company that doesn't have the overhead to put in the kind of R&D and QA into place to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen is never going to be "cream of the crop". Just MHO, butIt's worth another hundred $ more to get basically the same bow with a much higher level of QA behind it for me, and I have a problem with recommending them to anyone else for this reason, not to mention their business ethics.

They weren't at the ATA because they really can't take on more dealers and must be at production capacity............I wonder what that means in terms of turnaround time should an existing customer have a problem with something? [&:] If they can't keep up with paying new orders on bows, where on the priority list is problems with something already paid for going to fall?

I have a personal friend that bought 2x identical E500's, both of them ended up with the string/cable end loops being cut by the cam, one of which let go on him at full draw. Rather than sucking it up and re-engineering the cam to eliminate the issue,Elite useda dremel tool to modify it, then send it back for us to install claiming they fixed the problem. I've seen the bows first hand, worked on them for him, and saw the cam as well. Pretty sad indeed.

Take everything I've said for what it's worth. Again, I don't have a horse in this race as I'm not associated with any bow company at all at the time, just things that a lot here don't seem to be aware of.

Just a bit more food for thought..............

Rick James, I can hear the frustration in your post, and it's exactly the frustration we've had with them for a couple years. Which is why I've said in previous posts that I hope they can get their stuff together, because they really do make a fine bow. Believe you me, I've got more stories than those you've relayed, I'm just not going to discuss them.

We're an Elite dealer, but we aren't ordering any right now unless a customer just really wants one. We have sold a couple already, and I've shot them both. They are shooters to be sure.

As far as dremeling the cams......I SORT OF understand that, from a business standpoint. Please don't read that I agree with it, or excuse it, because I don't. But with all the troubles they were having w/ lawsuits and such, I believe re-designing and re-machining a whole bunch of cams would have been the hole that sunk the ship....They just couldn't....Again, I don't excuse it or agree with it....And unfortunately the reverberations of that action have seriously damaged the ship as well.

But they are indeed working hard, I do have to say their customer service is better (hey, at least they answer the phone now), and they do indeed make a very fine bow. Seems to me they still have a boat load of internal stuff to work through, and hopefully they can.

Oh, and...I've got no horse in this race either. Like you and others, I just have some first hand experience with them is all.

Matt,


That right there was the ONLY reason I was skeptical. I thought that was sorry, the way they fixed them. That was their 1st year in production wasn't it? I remember mobow talking about that. They fixed it for good the next year. I can understand why the dremeled it out. being a young company that could have broken them, it might not have been the right thing to do, but it'd what they HAD to do to stay in buisness.

Man, you guys crack me up. Just listening to some of you gloat about how great "your" company is, if I didn't know better, I'd think you guys were CEO and majority shareholder. LOL

**Begin Rant**

Personally, I think they're all ripoff artists. They do nothing but rape the consumer at every turn in the road... They monopolize the market through protected dealerships, overpriced parts, overpriced products and ruthlessly false advertising.

Look at Hoyt/Easton... These are the slimebags who insisted on building 5000 different sizes and shapes of arrows, then cornering the market on the components that fit their odd shaft diameters - and rape you at the point-of-sale just for a stupid uni-bushing. They put practically everyone else out of business, so the sky is the limit on their pricing policies. Just dirty trick after dirty trick... Another favorite of mine were the draw-length specific cams. Wanna sell your bow? Better find a buyer with the same draw length, or he's gonna take onefor the teamwhen he has to order new cams. Oh yeah, it has a lifetime warranty - but we won't tell you that it expires when you sell the bow.

Bows didn't cost $800 (bare) 10-15 years ago. Granted, costs have gone up, but not by that much... They're still using the same components (6061-T6 Aluminum cut on a CNC machine) and Gordon Glass raw materials...Raw material and labor costs don't just triple in 12 years.

What really twists the knife, for me at least - is not WHAT they do, but WHO they're doing it to. Look, if some luxury boat manufacturer wants to assrapeRichie Rich on theprice ofhis 72 foot yacht, have at it. But these people are taking advantage of the lower middle class. Most of their customers (honestly) have a better use for $1000 than blowing it on a bow, seriously. I concede that the buyer is mostly to blame, and people have to understand their finances and priorities before they go out and drop a grand on a stupid bow.. But itreally bothers me when you see some guy posing outside his house-trailer with a $1200 new Vulcan with all the trimmings - and it looks like a refugee camp in the background.

Maybe I just have more sympathy for the working class...

The collusion and price-fixingbetween these mfr's makes me sick...and the fact that they market this junk so hard that they convincegood hard-working peoplethat they 'need' it.

Put it this way - I know what bowtech charges its LOWVOLUMEdealers for their bows, and there's a lot of money being sucked out of the consumer - who's paying for WAY more than he's getting.Since every other mfr is building basically the same thing - theiroverhead and dealer pricing can't be much different.

So, y'all wonder why I boycott Hoyt/Easton, Bowtech, Mathews, PSE.... This is why. I think they're reprehensible in every possible way. They just keep taking every opportunity to pull the wool over peoples' eyes, and that really scorches me.

That's why I support any newcomers to the marketplace, hoping that someday, somebody will crush the old boys club and bring prices back down to respectable levels - and stop the price gouging.

**end rant**