[quote]Look at Hoyt/Easton... These are the slimebags who insisted on building 5000 different sizes and shapes of arrows, then cornering the market on the components that fit their odd shaft diameters - and rape you at the point-of-sale just for a stupid uni-bushing.[quote]

Different sizes give more choices to shoot. Better than one or two offerings to try and cover a wide range of poundage and draw lengths. The mfgs. who use a range of only 45-60 and 60-75 lb. in their arrow choices.....thats pretty poor in my book. Check out the prices too. The CX Maxima and some of Gold Tips arrows are just as high as the Easton ACCs.

While I agree that today's bows are too high in price, the price of aluminum today is sky high. Compare the bows of today against 12 yr. old bows and anyone can see the difference in workmanship. Most archers won't accept a blemish on their finish(rhyme) today. In years past a blemish was commonplace. String materials are higher because we all wanted no stretch strings/cables. We are also paying for that lifetime warranty because we asked for a longer warranty. About that warranty....why should a company expect to give free parts for life to a different owner(s) several years down the road.


One thing I agree with is I hate draw specific bows. Good for all the companies that do make modules and lose no performance.

Coug - 6061 Aluminum is sold by the metric ton - and iscurrently priced at only a couple dollars/lb. - so that has nothing to do with the price explosion - the only reason that all of these companies are now charging such ridiculously high prices, is because Hoyt/Easton has set the bar that high.

For example: If Igot into the business of buildingbaseballs, and Rawlings is selling zillions of baseballs at $4 each... It doesn't matter if it costsme .25 cents of $1.50 to build your baseball... You can bet your ass thatI'm gonna charge the consumer between $3 and $5 for your ball. Rawlings already has established a high price, so it's easy for me to just break into the market and set a similar pricing scheme.

Hoyt/Easton has always manipulated market supply/demand to artificially control its market pricing. That has nothing to do with their overhead costs. Everybody else is just eating some of the pie that Hoyt/Easton has already created.

...and as for the argument about the "need" for different sizes - is there actually a "need?" Do you mean to tell me that Easton's constantly-changing shaft interior/exterior diameters just happens by accident? No way. They're deliberately keeping the market cornered in their favor - and keeping competitors from taking a bite of their apple (pun intended) by cutting their throats and competing on component prices. Is the HIT insert "necessary?" LOL I don't think so.

As soon as Joe Schmoe (the insert manufacturer) brings a marketworthy competitorcomponentto Easton's latest arrows -they scap that shaft, and come up with something different - then market the hell out of it and convince every poor schlep in the Union that their "old" arrows are no good, and that they "need" this great new thing...

The fact is, they can't "compete" with everyone else, because they want to price gouge. So, they do what they can to keep the balance tilted in their favor.


And while the "bows are built better - so they must cost more to build" argument may hold a little weight- that has to be offset by the notion that CNC machines (now) can easily do things (like make cleaner, more intricate cuts) than their predecessors could have ever dreamed of. What used to be a labor-intensive paint shop is now a camo dip that takes almost no effort, and is not nearly as labor-intensive. Imported parts and machines are cheaper now, and more readily accessible than ever.

Wow, you really do have a beef with Hoyt. To be honest I have never owned one. But I do pretty well shoot only Easton arrows because I like them. I do have a beef with Easton now though......they are doing away with the A/C Superslim which I really like.

I'm going to have to stay out of this one...maybe TFOX will have a reply. I will only add that QS, although I don't agree with any of what you said, it's kinda fun to sit back and watch you push people's buttons.

MO - What can you possibly disagree with? It's a fact. We all know it. It's like the elephant in the room that nobody ever talks about. With all the competing interests and dollars changing hands - this is a topic that you'll NEVER read about in any bowhunting magazine, or see on TV, but I'm not in anyone's pockets, so I'm free to call it as I see it. No sugar coating. No lies. No half-truths.

Hoyt, Bowtech, Mathews and PSE - they all price gouge at the point of sale. They protect their dealers by guaranteeing a certain sales volume through "protected dealerships." And they collude on prices (at least implicitly). I know the prices, so I know what's happening.

Their past doesn't lie. Easton has been screwing people around with their arrows for 20 years, by yanking lines from the market and replacing them with new lines - forcing people to scrap their old inventory, and buy new components at ridiculous prices.

Let's face it: An aluminum arrow isn't all that far removed from being asodapop can. And a carbonshafts are one evolutionary step away from being bargain-basement carbon tubing. A bow is afew pieces of 6061 CNC-machined aluminum, with2 laminated limbs.

All of them are walking a very fine line between just conducting some peculiar business tactics - and violating the Sherman Anti-Trust act. One would have a hard time actually proving the collusion and market manipulation- but it's there - beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You make some good points Fran, but its just not archery equipment. Take a look at the price of gas, bread, milk, cheese, cars, dog food, ect.. compared to what it was 15 years ago. The minimum wage was bumped up and now the companies "have to" charge more to make up for the extra money that they pay their employees! Its ridiculous, but you can't really single certain companies or markets for it!

Buck Magnet- I agree that consumer prices have taken a significantupturn in the Bush years, but these companies are behaving especially badly.I canbuy PurinaDog Chow anywhere - not just at specialized vendors with protected geographic sales areas.Alpo isn'tsetting minimum price floors for their dog food -they just make the food, sell it atat ameager profit per can, and letthe market set the consumer price. Chevy doesn't keep changing the size and shapeof their bolts, so thateveryone who wants to use one hasto keep going out and buying new Chevrolet tools just to work on it.My Craftsman screwdriver comes with a lifetime warranty that is really a lifetime warranty. If Ford advertises a car that has 250 horsepower, it has 250 horsepower - it doesn't matter whether the driver is 5'0" tall, or 7'3". Ford doesn'tpass out a bunch of freepickup trucks to a horde of drivers, just tosucker them into coming online and swearing up and down all day that Ford is the greatest truck of all time.

Of all the things they do, the things that bother me the most are:
[ul][*]the secrecy shrouding their actual factory costs - if the public knew the truth, things would assuredlybe different - especially the obscene prices;[*]the protected dealerships;[*]the price collusion/fixing with their "competitors;"[*]monopolizing parts and components - charging unfair prices to the consumer, who has no available alternative;[*]advertising "ibo speed" and now "kinetic energy" - laypeople just don't understand those terms; and[*]"lifetime warranty" that is hardly a "lifetime warranty."[/ul]
So that's why I always support the small guy if I can. Just my way of doing my part.

LOL, has nothing to do with supply and demand, it's George Bush

BTW house supplies are at a 15 year low, bush's fault also[8D]

MAJOR credibilty discount points with this statement.

Well.....I'm no GWB fan....but I can assure you most all commodities have gone upunder every modern-day US President's watch.

While I agree with a lot of what you say......that was a major credibility hit.

I know. But that doesn't make my statement wrong, now does it? All I said was that things got more expensive over the past 8 yrs - I'd tend to think that it would be more of a credibility hit to anyone who disagreed, dontcha think?

I just preach the gospel, brother - I can't change it.