Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
01-18-2003 | 09:13 AM
#31
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 18,322
Likes: 0
From: Hughesville, PA USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
You know, really, George can take that shot and pull it off just a regularly as I can take a 30 yarder, maybe better. Heck, George can shoot bottle caps at 60 yards all day under the most extreme pressure and concentration of tournaments without missing a beat. If he feels he can do it..... good for him. Have at it. BUT.... I will tell 99.99% of the world to "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT".... because that shot is probably going to go bad before it ever becomes good. I would prefer they don't give all the newbies and the non-bowhunting world the idea this is a thing we do regularly or ever even try. I'd prefer they stick to dots and X's to show off their talents... but, someone wanted them in a hunting video.
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Well said Davidmil, there in lies the problem....if he can do it, good for him but it probably shouldn't have been aired for the "joe bowhunter" to think it's alright to do. They could have simply not mentioned the yardage and by the TV, we wouldn't know the difference. But knowing Winkleman's shows, he isn't much of a hunter from what I've seen IMHO and perhaps between them, they didn't have the talent to get closer.
I practiced to 70 yards prior to my bull elk hunt. I was 12 ringing a McKenzie with Muzzy broadheads but a bull elk isn't a McKenzie and I doubt I would have taken it even with my rangefinder. The practice made closer shots easier to take....but had I taken more than my 33 yard kill, like 70 yards, it wouldn't have been aired for the world to see.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
You know, really, George can take that shot and pull it off just a regularly as I can take a 30 yarder, maybe better. Heck, George can shoot bottle caps at 60 yards all day under the most extreme pressure and concentration of tournaments without missing a beat. If he feels he can do it..... good for him. Have at it. BUT.... I will tell 99.99% of the world to "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT".... because that shot is probably going to go bad before it ever becomes good. I would prefer they don't give all the newbies and the non-bowhunting world the idea this is a thing we do regularly or ever even try. I'd prefer they stick to dots and X's to show off their talents... but, someone wanted them in a hunting video.
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Well said Davidmil, there in lies the problem....if he can do it, good for him but it probably shouldn't have been aired for the "joe bowhunter" to think it's alright to do. They could have simply not mentioned the yardage and by the TV, we wouldn't know the difference. But knowing Winkleman's shows, he isn't much of a hunter from what I've seen IMHO and perhaps between them, they didn't have the talent to get closer.
I practiced to 70 yards prior to my bull elk hunt. I was 12 ringing a McKenzie with Muzzy broadheads but a bull elk isn't a McKenzie and I doubt I would have taken it even with my rangefinder. The practice made closer shots easier to take....but had I taken more than my 33 yard kill, like 70 yards, it wouldn't have been aired for the world to see.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
01-18-2003 | 09:18 AM
#32
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 18,322
Likes: 0
From: Hughesville, PA USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
That guy was George Dixon, Winner of FOUR 3-D Archery World Championships, TWO IBO National Championships, Five consecutive National Team Chammpionships, 1997-2001 and EIGHT Shooter of the Year awards since 1997! I would say if anyone had the resume for taking those shots, George is the one. Obviously, George didn't have any doubt as to whether or not he could make those shots.
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Your right Silent, however, he'd earned my, as well as probably all bowhunting communities repect, if he'd mentioned that fact and said...<font color=red>" although I know I can hit my mark at this distance, an animal isn't a target and animals can move. It isn't about the kill, it's about the hunt and let's see if we can get closer."</font id=red>
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
That guy was George Dixon, Winner of FOUR 3-D Archery World Championships, TWO IBO National Championships, Five consecutive National Team Chammpionships, 1997-2001 and EIGHT Shooter of the Year awards since 1997! I would say if anyone had the resume for taking those shots, George is the one. Obviously, George didn't have any doubt as to whether or not he could make those shots.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Your right Silent, however, he'd earned my, as well as probably all bowhunting communities repect, if he'd mentioned that fact and said...<font color=red>" although I know I can hit my mark at this distance, an animal isn't a target and animals can move. It isn't about the kill, it's about the hunt and let's see if we can get closer."</font id=red>
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
01-18-2003 | 09:56 AM
#33
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Simla Colorado USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
I think we as bowhunters should be careful to judge what is ethical and unethical for other hunters. If you hunt deer where I do, shots under 30 yds are very rare. I DO believe we have a responsibility to be ethical for the sake of our sport, but don't be too quick to judge what is ethical just because YOU hunt where 10-20yd shots are the norm.
My personal choice of how long a shot is determined by how accurate I am at that distance. I took a New Mexico buck at 70 yds a few yrs ago, but I knew the distance.....and had a 70 yd pin. I was putting 5 out of every six arrows in a paper plate at that distance. The buck went only 50 yds after a quartering away shot.
My current limit is 50 yds until I adjust some of my new equipment and prove to myself I am accurate enough to shoot beyond that.
Besides, there is RISK involved with ANY shot, bow or gun, at ANY distance! By exercising good judgement and ethics that every hunter should have, we MINIMIZE that risk, but we don't completely eliminate it.
Until this year, I had NEVER lost a deer that I hit with an arrow. It was a sad event, but it didn't happen because I am an unethical hunter. I searched for the buck for 3 days, and I believe he did not die from the wound, but cannot be absolutely certain. What is ironic about this is that my stalk this time put me within 20 yds. We all know this sometimes happens at any distance. As bowhunters, it is a sad time, but a time to learn from the experience...figure out what we could have done differently...and try our best to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Yes, we should limit our shooting distances to the ranges that we are accurate and confident. That does not mean I am unethical because my shooting distances are longer that yours!
Congratulations on your 7 yd shots from treestands, where you can't even SEE the deer more than 25 yds away. I have 4 tree stands and have used then in Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Virginia, and Colorado. However, where I currently hunt for deer, there aren't any climbable trees within miles, and not much cover at all. Don't try to tell me my 50 yd shot, attained by a 3 hour stalk...an hour of which is spent crawling on my belly...is unethical.
My personal choice of how long a shot is determined by how accurate I am at that distance. I took a New Mexico buck at 70 yds a few yrs ago, but I knew the distance.....and had a 70 yd pin. I was putting 5 out of every six arrows in a paper plate at that distance. The buck went only 50 yds after a quartering away shot.
My current limit is 50 yds until I adjust some of my new equipment and prove to myself I am accurate enough to shoot beyond that.
Besides, there is RISK involved with ANY shot, bow or gun, at ANY distance! By exercising good judgement and ethics that every hunter should have, we MINIMIZE that risk, but we don't completely eliminate it.
Until this year, I had NEVER lost a deer that I hit with an arrow. It was a sad event, but it didn't happen because I am an unethical hunter. I searched for the buck for 3 days, and I believe he did not die from the wound, but cannot be absolutely certain. What is ironic about this is that my stalk this time put me within 20 yds. We all know this sometimes happens at any distance. As bowhunters, it is a sad time, but a time to learn from the experience...figure out what we could have done differently...and try our best to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Yes, we should limit our shooting distances to the ranges that we are accurate and confident. That does not mean I am unethical because my shooting distances are longer that yours!
Congratulations on your 7 yd shots from treestands, where you can't even SEE the deer more than 25 yds away. I have 4 tree stands and have used then in Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Virginia, and Colorado. However, where I currently hunt for deer, there aren't any climbable trees within miles, and not much cover at all. Don't try to tell me my 50 yd shot, attained by a 3 hour stalk...an hour of which is spent crawling on my belly...is unethical.
01-18-2003 | 12:40 PM
#34
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: wisconsin USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
Hi,
Like I always said,you have the poor,the average,the real good and the great shooters.When every body below the great sees this,many that don't understand or possess this talent will be the first to criticize.
Like I always said,you have the poor,the average,the real good and the great shooters.When every body below the great sees this,many that don't understand or possess this talent will be the first to criticize.
01-18-2003 | 07:51 PM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,626
Likes: 0
From: Land of Oz
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
Great thread. Its nice to see bowhunters showing so much respect for the sport while being courteous to each other even when they disagree. Many fine points made on both sides of the question.
I could not dream of shooting 70 yards with accuracy, so its difficult for me to even imagine the shot. Never hunted caribou either.
So basically I don't have an opinion, but I agree with everyone. He should never do it under any circumstances because its too risky but he can do it, because he can do it.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I will say that I think Babe Winkleman Outdoors is a show that should stick to fishing.
I could not dream of shooting 70 yards with accuracy, so its difficult for me to even imagine the shot. Never hunted caribou either.
So basically I don't have an opinion, but I agree with everyone. He should never do it under any circumstances because its too risky but he can do it, because he can do it.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I will say that I think Babe Winkleman Outdoors is a show that should stick to fishing.
01-20-2003 | 07:40 AM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
Bullhound,
<font color=red>"An animal doesn't have to "jump the string" @ 70 yards for craps sake! A step is a step and a slight turn is a slight turn which in turn relates to a disaster waiting to happen. I'm sorry the conditions weren't exactly right but if you can't get any closer than 70 yards, (with high winds to boot), pass on the shot or pick up your rifle."</font id=red>
VERY well said!
JRW
<font color=red>"An animal doesn't have to "jump the string" @ 70 yards for craps sake! A step is a step and a slight turn is a slight turn which in turn relates to a disaster waiting to happen. I'm sorry the conditions weren't exactly right but if you can't get any closer than 70 yards, (with high winds to boot), pass on the shot or pick up your rifle."</font id=red>
VERY well said!
JRW
01-20-2003 | 09:14 AM
#37
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
From: Altadena CA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
Would it have hurt them to not mention all the details of the shot (i.e., distance and windage)? That way it doesn't encourage the poorer shots and inflame the antis.
How about just saying: "He ranged the shot, waited for the animal to relax and feed, took careful aim, and executed a clean release." The video would've been just as good with none of the downsides mentioned in earlier responses.
Never trust a bow under 40 (inches).
How about just saying: "He ranged the shot, waited for the animal to relax and feed, took careful aim, and executed a clean release." The video would've been just as good with none of the downsides mentioned in earlier responses.
Never trust a bow under 40 (inches).
01-20-2003 | 09:51 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 0
From: Memphis TN USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
You know what gets me is, everyone throws it back to "you don't want the newbies to think that is ok". Well you know what, if anyone newbie or otherwise, doesn't realize they shouldn't shoot at something that far; that friggn TV show ain't going to make the difference. How sad is that? Is that what the wave of new bowhunters has been reduced too? The bottom of the food chain? Are the newcomers to our sport really that stupid? If so what a sad day for human exitence. I see people blow **** up on TV all the time and I don't run out and do that. Every time someone does something the "Moral Majority" doesn't agree with it's "joe bowhunter" didn't need to see that. I feel sorry for "joe bowhunter" if he doesn't have any more gumption or common sense than to wander around aimlessly waiting on someone to define his every move. I started bowhunting on my own at age 14. No one ever taught me anything about it. I at no point in my bow hunting infancy ever thought I could take 70 yrd shots or head on shots so why would a grown man with any common sense think it would be acceptable for him to do so. At some point don't individuals have to start taking responsibility for their own actions?
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
Edited by - silentassassin on 01/20/2003 10:58:08
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
Edited by - silentassassin on 01/20/2003 10:58:08
01-20-2003 | 01:43 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 0
From: Memphis TN USA
RE: Another T.V. Show Mistake!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I would prefer they don't give all the newbies and the non-bowhunting world the idea this is a thing we do regularly or ever even try. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Here is another question. How is the non-bowhunting world supposed to know whether this shot is good bad or indifferent? I am sure most non-bowhunters don't have a real good conception of judging yardage or a typical archers effective range. My next question is, if the non-bowhunting world is supposed to know whether or not this was a routine shot wouldn't a bowhunter in training know it also? Why would we think the non-bowhunters that have no idea about effective archery ranges or judging yardage would condemn a 70 yd shot and a new bowhunter celebrate them?
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
Here is another question. How is the non-bowhunting world supposed to know whether this shot is good bad or indifferent? I am sure most non-bowhunters don't have a real good conception of judging yardage or a typical archers effective range. My next question is, if the non-bowhunting world is supposed to know whether or not this was a routine shot wouldn't a bowhunter in training know it also? Why would we think the non-bowhunters that have no idea about effective archery ranges or judging yardage would condemn a 70 yd shot and a new bowhunter celebrate them?
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."