No Charlie I'm not accusing them but what I am saying, as a part time cameraman for a hunting video company, is that just because the finished product looks like everything went as planned and the shots were true doesn't mean in reality that is the way it was.

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Thwack it's perserving thier reps by editing the video,example: I think that it was Monster Bucks II that Bill Jordan shoots a nice 10 point in Canada, the shot that you see in the video enters the deer behind the ribs on the right side, but as the deer runs off he's dragging his left rear leg. Well after what bill admits is a long tracking job the deer is laying on the ground with a arrow sticking out of it's left side. There never a mention of the other shot. Not a conspiracy just doesn't want to admit that he shot the deer in the a$$.

Gutshot....are these guys related to the Clintons..if so I might have to agree with you<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

THWACK!

Double Lung Em,

That was a cut and paste from King Geoge's website. I assume they were shooter of the year awards from different leagues.

gutshot,

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>But I don't care who you are and how many awards that you have won, it's unethical to shoot at a live animal 70 yards away with the wind blowing so hard that you have to give your arrow 18 inches windage. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

It isn't unethical if you shoot enough to be able to judge the windage. If he was willy nilly guessing it would have been unethical but, when you're as good as him and you shoot everyday in the wind, I would imagine you get pretty good at judging windage. It's has been a couple of weeks since I saw that show but I could have sworn you got to see the 70 yd shot from the time he released to impact. I remember commenting to my father about him not being able to hit it any better than he did and how I wouldn't have shot at a bulldozer from that far. That's why he makes his living doing that and I don't.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Edited by - silentassassin on 01/17/2003 12:34:58

How many championships these guys won is a mute point, a caribou's vitals are much larger than is needed for them to hit, and the same can be said for a bunch of guys on this forum. There's a ton of guys out there that can guarantee they'll hit a caribou sized vital area every time at 70 yards, no problem.
A caribou isn't a whitetail, with the quick reaction time, so a longer shot is usually fine.
Not my cup of tea, but who am I to criticize? I hunt with guys who could make that 70 yard caribou shot easier and more often than some guys on this forum at 35 yards, so skill will largely determine &quot;ethics&quot;.
I just wonder why they just didn't take muzzleloaders or rifles? Bowhunting to me and everyone I personally know is getting as closse as you can to the animal, that's the thrill of bowhunting. If I was going to shoot at 70 yards, why not just use a gun? You're not experiencing a careful stalk, or seeing the &quot;white's of their eyes&quot;, so what's the point of bowhunting? Why limit yourself to 70 yards, or whatever these guys effective range is, when you could get another 70 with an inline? They're obviously not tring to experience close ragee encounters, they're trying to maximize their killing range.
Just my personal question, as I said, whatever these guys are capable of, I have no problem calling that ethical, each person needs to make their own decision, but if you're not bringing home about 90% or more of the animals you send an arrow after, you need to re-think your decision.
When everyone is shooting 400fps, and 70 yard shots are more common, you can bet the Fish&Game depts will re-think the length of archery seasons, and the number of tags alloted.




&quot;In heaven, even the fish have antlers&quot;

I do alot of practice at 40 to 50 yards but
dont shoot a deer farther than 30. Practicing
at the longer range has made the closer shots
seem much easier. Now 25 yards seems like a piece
of cake when shooting at a deer.
I dont think anyone, no matter how good of a shot
should attempt to shoot at a deer over 35 yards.
An Elk, however, has much bigger vital area and slower
reflexes so if your shooting the poundage at 50 yards and are accurateat that range, go for it.

THWACK is right about being able to see one of the animals fall. On the seventy yarder that was shot, the cameria never turned off until the animal was down. It was only a matter of a very few seconds.

GUTSHOT does your name say something about your shooting? Maybe you need to let them get REAL close.

Also note that they had range finders so they knew the exact yardages they were shooting.

As far as the point that 6ptsika made, they were hunting in extremely open country that didn't allow for close stalks. They explained in the show that it wasn't the best conditions to stalk, because the bulls were not traveling with the cows at that time making it much more difficult. Besides Matthew's would not have gotten the publicity if they were using guns.

Do you people think that anybody can consistently gauge the wind from themselves out to an animal 70 freakin yards away? Wake Up!

Can someone describe exactly how far one of these animals would have moved, prior to arrow impact, if it had taken only one step at the same time Mr. World Class let fly? Anyone????? I didn't know that range finders can read an animals mind to let you know that it WILL NOT MOVE. I think I'll pick one of those units up.

I'm surprised that such an &quot;accomplished&quot; archer wouldn't think more about what he may be representing. People that worship someone like this need to ask themselves: &quot;would I teach my kid to do this under any circumstances?&quot;

Get Close.......&amp; Shoot Straight

Many rifle hunters guage wind out to 500 or more yards, and hold 18&quot; off regularly. If they've done it thousands and thousands of times, it's easier for them than you shooting a 25yd broadside deer.
As a matter of fact, if a whitetail deer takes a step right when you release at 30 yards, your arrow will probably hit farther back than a caribou taking a step at twice that distance. Plus it's relatively easy to tell if a large animal like a caribou is about to take a step or not, unlike a deer which could come unglued at any moment.




&quot;In heaven, even the fish have antlers&quot;