Originally Posted by Grouse45

Like i said on this before on this forum. You have nothing to offer but this. You obviously have no one in life that listens to you so you try the internet.

Originally Posted by Gm54-120

builder459

Ive shot them all in the 45 and IMO they all have value depending on the game and distance. So far i haven't got the best consistent accuracy with the Lehighs but they are quite acceptable for hunting. Actually one of my best 200 yard groups was with the 185gr Lehigh but i struggle to get the 200gr to shoot nearly as well. My Original DISC might do better but my stock of 200s is about gone.

If Lehigh will change the base to resemble the Bloodlines, i will buy more and continue testing them. Just a slight change in a monolithic bullet can make a huge improvement and i think the change in the Bloodlines base proves my point is valid. I also know revised versions are being sent to some SML guys for further testing and when Barnes made a small change to their 40s it had a huge impact on accuracy and sabots drilling. Barnes has since changed the bulk 40s back to the old design thanks to several of the guys on Dougs.

Some Barnes also are not the easiest to get to group well consistently but once you find the right combo they shoot great. I avoid the tiny HP versions usually but the 175 and 195gr seem ok. The 285gr SpitFires have a terrible record IMO to fail to expand. I would love to see them offer a 220gr 40cal with a bigger HP.

If you want a cheaper Barnes option, try the 458-300gr SOCOM. It plain works and is my best shooter with 120gr of BH209. The .236 BC isnt bad either. $45/50 or less on sale. Me and Omega have put this bullet through a variety of loads/sabots and it works for us.

SSTs and FTXs usually shoot great but i avoid the 250gr SST for hunting, IMO there are far better and even cheaper SST/FTXs such as the 458-325gr FTX. It flat out hammers and even Knight uses them in some 52cal sabots/bullets.......IMO its the best 36 cent (at the gunshows) bullet you can buy and it doesn't take a ton of fps to perform. I shoot them in the Savage at upto 2300fps but i can go faster. I just don't care for any more recoil and personally it doesn't even need that much velocity but it can handle it.

Parker BEs are insanely accurate and were the "pet" bullet for many on the old MM smokeless section. They are awesome in sabotless applications too. Ive got over 100 of the 275gr BEs and some 250s coming for WAY under Parkers pricing. Im hoping to get them shooting sabotless with Bh209. It only makes about 28K psi under the heaviest conditions from my research. During that same time period, the NULA and SMIs were the darlings of many on that section too. ...Hmmmm i wonder what changed? If you ever handle one, you would see why and why IMO its worth the $1300. I would gladly pay that for a 45cal version but Mel wont make any more. Priming them though can be a PITA. The Lehigh conversion is much easier to prime/reload and IMO even easier than the Savage.

I pretty much own a variety of guns, sabots and use a variety of powders and i will tell you flat out how i feel about each of them. Not a single one is perfect but some come close. I take a little flak on Dougs board because im not a huge Savage fan and prefer the NULA. Plus i haven't given up on a Lehigh for 50cal SML use. The 275gr 458 in the past shot good for me with subs but i want to take it to the next level and gain another 200fps. SMLs quite often recoil less since they use less powder to achieve the same fps as 150gr of BH209. Try any recoil calculator and its fairly obvious plus when i shot the PT Gold 260gr near 2300fps it was VERY obvious. 43gr of smokeless kicked less than 120gr of BH209 in rifles of similar weight.

I don't post or recommend load data for BH209 above 120gr in the forum but according to the traces it is safe in a 50cal and should be in a 52cal too. I only share that data in PMs with a warning that it exceeds Westerns recommendations. USE AT YOU OWN RISK. Ive seen others do it but that is them and its not for me to scold them about it. Mods should deal with that however they see fit. Let them know in a PM if you feel it is dangerous.

When the GUN manufacturer offers that 120gr+ BH209 load data my opinion will change. Knight hasn't done it yet so....Even Savage does not recommend over 120gr and their barrels are tested to well over 100K psi. Green Mountain told me their ML barrels are tested to roughly 52K psi, CVAs are tested to about 28K psi according to their "shill" or whatever term you prefer.....so you be the judge on what is safe. Debating it here wont convince anyone that wants to try it.

Well this thread has been totally derailed and im just as much to blame. Lets all just hope the new powder is as good as they claim and it gives us all more options at a lower cost. Ive got 5lbs coming (i paid for) to decide for myself if it will do what i want and in the guns i want to use it in.

Originally Posted by builder459

GM, i have nothing but respect for you and what you stated above. sending a PM in regards to exceeding limits on powder, i have to respectfully disagree. it needs to be posted in the forum, where other members especially beginners can see it and hopefully won't get the impression that if 140 gr of BH is ok, why not 150 or maybe 160!especially if there rifles of choice are not the best quality..same thing goes for .200 gr bullets used on Elk size animals..i don't think this even needs any further explanation.as i said earlier i will no longer confront (said Schill) on this board, but will handle this behind the scenes..which will be a lot more effective.Ray

Originally Posted by sabotloader

Ray, I think you might look up the manufactures recommendations for a Knight Rifle. You can shoot 150 grains of any loose powder with a bullet weighing 290 grains or less.

Powder recommendation from a Manufacturer are always set low for liabilty sake. They have know idea what rifle you may be shooting or the condition of that rifle. Hodgdon recommends 100 grain max of T7 also, but the rifle manufacture recommendations are the ones to follow for that particular rifle. And you will find that most ML manufactures are always above the powder company reccomendations, because they have done the testing in their products.

And I hope you do not think Grouse is the only one shooting 140 grains of BH in there Knights.

When in doubt - get your rifle manual out and see what it says.

Originally Posted by sabotloader

Gm54-120

Remember today there are no Lehigh Bullets - they are all Bloodlines. I am not sure if Dave can even sell ML bullets any longer and stay within the contract.

Lehigh does not have two bullet varieties any longer unless you can get some old stock - they are all Bloodlines.

Originally Posted by builder459

Lehigh still list M/L bullets on there site Ray

Originally Posted by sabotloader

Gm54-120

Remember today there are no Lehigh Bullets - they are all Bloodlines. I am not sure if Dave can even sell ML bullets any longer and stay within the contract.

Lehigh does not have two bullet varieties any longer unless you can get some old stock - they are all Bloodlines.

Originally Posted by Gm54-120

Knight does not offer a 40cal Bloodline so i cant see how it would infringe or compete against them. If Knight picks them up and they have the same changes that were made to the Lehighs, i will buy a few.

He still has them listed and making the change in design is a no brainier. I also know some are being sent to guys on Dougs for testing unless the person that posted that info lied. Lehigh is definitely interested in selling to the SML market too which Knight will not openly support. The load data for the 458 300gr is proof HE is interested whether Knight is or not.
http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=29

The last 100 458s i got were the old design for sure and i would love to compare them to the new version.