New powder
08-07-2011 | 04:25 AM
#111
Typical Buck
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
Wow ......same old stuff.... another thread hijacked... Take your Schill stuff and start another thread. I only care about a possible new powder that can compete against BH. Cant wait for the testing results.
08-07-2011 | 06:56 AM
#113
Typical Buck
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis, IN
Well if there are any alliant reps out there.....if you send me some for free.....
No, all kidding aside send a case to grouse, he will forget about the western powder junk and you will be golden.......
08-07-2011 | 07:11 AM
#114
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 0
From: Saxonburg Pa
Oh,one last thing, this Schill will go as far as to want to use a .45 cal 200 gr bullet on a ELK! with a load of BH well over what is considered max. to try and prove a point about his pet bullet. i find this disturbing and highly unethical..to even consider trying it! Ray
My Knight manual shows load data up to 150grns of 777 powder by volume. You do a little home work you will see that an equal charge of BH209 has less pressure. So my 140grn charge by volume is under what the gun manufacture recommends.
The powder manufacture needs to keep maximum charge low because not all muzzleloaders are made the same. I do know you would not understand that. That's why they do it.
08-07-2011 | 07:35 AM
#115
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,496
Likes: 0
From: Yucca Valley,Ca
Deflection as usual, Bh209 clearly states on the product 120 gr.please remember we have a lot of people on this board that are novices.we don't need schills like you promoting it's "ok" to exceed those warnings and someone saying to themselves well heck, (the experienced person on my board uses 140 gr Bh209. heck if he can do that i am sure i can use 150.)this isn't about how well built your knight is you ego maniac! i will no longer air my total disgust for your actions on this board. i will take the fight behind the scenes and gather others from this board (lots of them) who feel exactly as i do about your actions and take it directly to the people you Schill for.i promise you they will not appreciate your actions. Ray
08-07-2011 | 07:55 AM
#116
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 0
From: Saxonburg Pa
Deflection as usual, Bh209 clearly states on the product 120 gr.please remember we have a lot of people on this board that are novices.we don't need schills like you promoting it's "ok" to exceed those warnings and someone saying to themselves well heck, (the experienced person on my board uses 140 gr Bh209. heck if he can do that i am sure i can use 150.)this isn't about how well built your knight is you ego maniac! i will no longer air my total disgust for your actions on this board. i will take the fight behind the scenes and gather others from this board (lots of them) who feel exactly as i do about your actions and take it directly to the people you Schill for.i promise you they will not appreciate your actions. Ray
08-07-2011 | 09:23 AM
#117
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,612
Likes: 0
builder459
Ive shot them all in the 45 and IMO they all have value depending on the game and distance. So far i haven't got the best consistent accuracy with the Lehighs but they are quite acceptable for hunting. Actually one of my best 200 yard groups was with the 185gr Lehigh but i struggle to get the 200gr to shoot nearly as well. My Original DISC might do better but my stock of 200s is about gone.
If Lehigh will change the base to resemble the Bloodlines, i will buy more and continue testing them. Just a slight change in a monolithic bullet can make a huge improvement and i think the change in the Bloodlines base proves my point is valid. I also know revised versions are being sent to some SML guys for further testing and when Barnes made a small change to their 40s it had a huge impact on accuracy and sabots drilling. Barnes has since changed the bulk 40s back to the old design thanks to several of the guys on Dougs.
Some Barnes also are not the easiest to get to group well consistently but once you find the right combo they shoot great. I avoid the tiny HP versions usually but the 175 and 195gr seem ok. The 285gr SpitFires have a terrible record IMO to fail to expand. I would love to see them offer a 220gr 40cal with a bigger HP.
If you want a cheaper Barnes option, try the 458-300gr SOCOM. It plain works and is my best shooter with 120gr of BH209. The .236 BC isnt bad either. $45/50 or less on sale. Me and Omega have put this bullet through a variety of loads/sabots and it works for us.
SSTs and FTXs usually shoot great but i avoid the 250gr SST for hunting, IMO there are far better and even cheaper SST/FTXs such as the 458-325gr FTX. It flat out hammers and even Knight uses them in some 52cal sabots/bullets.......IMO its the best 36 cent (at the gunshows) bullet you can buy and it doesn't take a ton of fps to perform. I shoot them in the Savage at upto 2300fps but i can go faster. I just don't care for any more recoil and personally it doesn't even need that much velocity but it can handle it.
Parker BEs are insanely accurate and were the "pet" bullet for many on the old MM smokeless section. They are awesome in sabotless applications too. Ive got over 100 of the 275gr BEs and some 250s coming for WAY under Parkers pricing. Im hoping to get them shooting sabotless with Bh209. It only makes about 28K psi under the heaviest conditions from my research. During that same time period, the NULA and SMIs were the darlings of many on that section too. ...Hmmmm i wonder what changed? If you ever handle one, you would see why and why IMO its worth the $1300. I would gladly pay that for a 45cal version but Mel wont make any more. Priming them though can be a PITA. The Lehigh conversion is much easier to prime/reload and IMO even easier than the Savage.
I pretty much own a variety of guns, sabots and use a variety of powders and i will tell you flat out how i feel about each of them. Not a single one is perfect but some come close. I take a little flak on Dougs board because im not a huge Savage fan and prefer the NULA. Plus i haven't given up on a Lehigh for 50cal SML use. The 275gr 458 in the past shot good for me with subs but i want to take it to the next level and gain another 200fps. SMLs quite often recoil less since they use less powder to achieve the same fps as 150gr of BH209. Try any recoil calculator and its fairly obvious plus when i shot the PT Gold 260gr near 2300fps it was VERY obvious. 43gr of smokeless kicked less than 120gr of BH209 in rifles of similar weight.
I don't post or recommend load data for BH209 above 120gr in the forum but according to the traces it is safe in a 50cal and should be in a 52cal too. I only share that data in PMs with a warning that it exceeds Westerns recommendations. USE AT YOU OWN RISK. Ive seen others do it but that is them and its not for me to scold them about it. Mods should deal with that however they see fit. Let them know in a PM if you feel it is dangerous.
When the GUN manufacturer offers that 120gr+ BH209 load data my opinion will change. Knight hasn't done it yet so....Even Savage does not recommend over 120gr and their barrels are tested to well over 100K psi. Green Mountain told me their ML barrels are tested to roughly 52K psi, CVAs are tested to about 28K psi according to their "shill" or whatever term you prefer.....so you be the judge on what is safe. Debating it here wont convince anyone that wants to try it.
Well this thread has been totally derailed and im just as much to blame. Lets all just hope the new powder is as good as they claim and it gives us all more options at a lower cost. Ive got 5lbs coming (i paid for) to decide for myself if it will do what i want and in the guns i want to use it in.
Ive shot them all in the 45 and IMO they all have value depending on the game and distance. So far i haven't got the best consistent accuracy with the Lehighs but they are quite acceptable for hunting. Actually one of my best 200 yard groups was with the 185gr Lehigh but i struggle to get the 200gr to shoot nearly as well. My Original DISC might do better but my stock of 200s is about gone.
If Lehigh will change the base to resemble the Bloodlines, i will buy more and continue testing them. Just a slight change in a monolithic bullet can make a huge improvement and i think the change in the Bloodlines base proves my point is valid. I also know revised versions are being sent to some SML guys for further testing and when Barnes made a small change to their 40s it had a huge impact on accuracy and sabots drilling. Barnes has since changed the bulk 40s back to the old design thanks to several of the guys on Dougs.
Some Barnes also are not the easiest to get to group well consistently but once you find the right combo they shoot great. I avoid the tiny HP versions usually but the 175 and 195gr seem ok. The 285gr SpitFires have a terrible record IMO to fail to expand. I would love to see them offer a 220gr 40cal with a bigger HP.
If you want a cheaper Barnes option, try the 458-300gr SOCOM. It plain works and is my best shooter with 120gr of BH209. The .236 BC isnt bad either. $45/50 or less on sale. Me and Omega have put this bullet through a variety of loads/sabots and it works for us.
SSTs and FTXs usually shoot great but i avoid the 250gr SST for hunting, IMO there are far better and even cheaper SST/FTXs such as the 458-325gr FTX. It flat out hammers and even Knight uses them in some 52cal sabots/bullets.......IMO its the best 36 cent (at the gunshows) bullet you can buy and it doesn't take a ton of fps to perform. I shoot them in the Savage at upto 2300fps but i can go faster. I just don't care for any more recoil and personally it doesn't even need that much velocity but it can handle it.
Parker BEs are insanely accurate and were the "pet" bullet for many on the old MM smokeless section. They are awesome in sabotless applications too. Ive got over 100 of the 275gr BEs and some 250s coming for WAY under Parkers pricing. Im hoping to get them shooting sabotless with Bh209. It only makes about 28K psi under the heaviest conditions from my research. During that same time period, the NULA and SMIs were the darlings of many on that section too. ...Hmmmm i wonder what changed? If you ever handle one, you would see why and why IMO its worth the $1300. I would gladly pay that for a 45cal version but Mel wont make any more. Priming them though can be a PITA. The Lehigh conversion is much easier to prime/reload and IMO even easier than the Savage.
I pretty much own a variety of guns, sabots and use a variety of powders and i will tell you flat out how i feel about each of them. Not a single one is perfect but some come close. I take a little flak on Dougs board because im not a huge Savage fan and prefer the NULA. Plus i haven't given up on a Lehigh for 50cal SML use. The 275gr 458 in the past shot good for me with subs but i want to take it to the next level and gain another 200fps. SMLs quite often recoil less since they use less powder to achieve the same fps as 150gr of BH209. Try any recoil calculator and its fairly obvious plus when i shot the PT Gold 260gr near 2300fps it was VERY obvious. 43gr of smokeless kicked less than 120gr of BH209 in rifles of similar weight.
I don't post or recommend load data for BH209 above 120gr in the forum but according to the traces it is safe in a 50cal and should be in a 52cal too. I only share that data in PMs with a warning that it exceeds Westerns recommendations. USE AT YOU OWN RISK. Ive seen others do it but that is them and its not for me to scold them about it. Mods should deal with that however they see fit. Let them know in a PM if you feel it is dangerous.
When the GUN manufacturer offers that 120gr+ BH209 load data my opinion will change. Knight hasn't done it yet so....Even Savage does not recommend over 120gr and their barrels are tested to well over 100K psi. Green Mountain told me their ML barrels are tested to roughly 52K psi, CVAs are tested to about 28K psi according to their "shill" or whatever term you prefer.....so you be the judge on what is safe. Debating it here wont convince anyone that wants to try it.
Well this thread has been totally derailed and im just as much to blame. Lets all just hope the new powder is as good as they claim and it gives us all more options at a lower cost. Ive got 5lbs coming (i paid for) to decide for myself if it will do what i want and in the guns i want to use it in.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 08-07-2011 at 09:49 AM.
08-07-2011 | 09:24 AM
#118
Typical Buck
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis, IN
What do you have to offer Louse??? the only time you chime in on the board is to peddle your pet products.... Someone ask a question and you answer with how that can be avoided or there groups will be better is only they would use the products you are pushing....
Like any good shill you are great at your job ie.. knowing charges, trajectory, energy and speed.... but, you are paid to know it....
So, please do not jump on here and act like you are an everyday outdoorsman, like the rest of us. YOU ARE NOT!!! you are here to pull the wool over the sheeples eyes!!!
Sheeple
A individual that forfits their right to choose in favor of inclusion in groupthink and what is viewed as popular or elete group. Allowing the influences of different forms of media and group members to hold great sway in the formation of attitudes, behavoir and opinion.
To accept the group mentaility and opinion as fact.
I went ahead and put the defination in for Omega so, he wouldn't have to look that up....lol
Like any good shill you are great at your job ie.. knowing charges, trajectory, energy and speed.... but, you are paid to know it....
So, please do not jump on here and act like you are an everyday outdoorsman, like the rest of us. YOU ARE NOT!!! you are here to pull the wool over the sheeples eyes!!!
Sheeple
A individual that forfits their right to choose in favor of inclusion in groupthink and what is viewed as popular or elete group. Allowing the influences of different forms of media and group members to hold great sway in the formation of attitudes, behavoir and opinion.
To accept the group mentaility and opinion as fact.
I went ahead and put the defination in for Omega so, he wouldn't have to look that up....lol
Last edited by EndeavorShooter; 08-07-2011 at 09:26 AM.
AMEN