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76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

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76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

Old 04-24-2009, 03:54 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

here is my thoughts on this ............ it was so important to ticket a man for hunting over bait for turkeys on private land that a shooting death occurred as the result ..... I mean, seriously, in retrospect, is the importance of it all really justification for the events that unfolded?

sure, many things could have stopped the escalations of the story that was told, and it IS a story, no one knows what happened but the dead man and the living one, and the living one is telling it - but in the grand scheme of things the root cause was the drive to write a citation to a man on his own property for hunting turkeys over bait - right?

is it me or does that sound like a reallytrvial start to it all ?
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:51 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

ORIGINAL: stealthycat II

here is my thoughts on this ............ it was so important to ticket a man for hunting over bait for turkeys on private land that a shooting death occurred as the result ..... I mean, seriously, in retrospect, is the importance of it all really justification for the events that unfolded?

sure, many things could have stopped the escalations of the story that was told, and it IS a story, no one knows what happened but the dead man and the living one, and the living one is telling it - but in the grand scheme of things the root cause was the drive to write a citation to a man on his own property for hunting turkeys over bait - right?

is it me or does that sound like a reallytrvial start to it all ?
Maybe we should just chuck the game laws entirely and let people shoot what they want, when they want, how many they want, and not worry about it. Or maybe we should just afford that luxury to people who have their own land and let us public land hunters have to deal with rules and regulations. The guy might have been on his own land, but laws are laws. If a LEO asked me to climb down and put down my weapon, I'd do it. I might not be happy if I was legally hunting, but I'd do it. The last thing on earth I'd do is threaten him or point my weapon at him. Yes, it was trivial. The LEO followed up on a game violation tip, caught the guy red handed, and the guy should have just taken the citation and been done with it. I can't imagine the LEO was lookin to shoot someone that day. I have to think the land owner took a trivial situation and escallated it.

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Old 04-24-2009, 05:17 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

Here is what I don't get. Many say back out, it's trivial, get farther away, etc. So every time someone is suspected of a game violation they just point their gun at the warden and threaten them? This sounds like a situation where a blatant violation was occuring (in NC if you are sitting in a treestand turkey hunting over bait that is a blatant violation) and when approached the violator supposedly escallated the situation by pointing a weapon at the warden. Now once you threaten the life of any type of enforcement officier, no matter how petty you think the violation is, the original violation is not what is now the "major" violation, the threat is. I don't care if you are jaywalking, if you threaten the officer's life you are going to be charged for it and you aren't going to be allowed to walk home to be arrested later either. Also about backing out of range. Just because it appears to be a shotgun inan instant how is a warden to know what it is loaded with? #6 lead vs. a 12 gauge slug would have mighty different results when fired at a person. I have prayed for both sides knowing this is a bad deal for all. It is easy to Monday morning quarterback this situation but the biggest thing you must do is separate the 2 violations because the turkey bait didn't lead to the guy's death, supposedly pointing his shotgun at the warden did. Look at it this way, many fault the warden for going too far, what if the guy had just said OK you got me and just taken his ticket?
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:50 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

Dont think that any GW should back away when they are threatened and people pointing guns at law enforcement should not be tolerated, IF it has to come to that. However, I think that some folks are simply arguing that the whole situation could have been handled in a manner where guns were not even involved.Keep in mind that dealing with a game violation is not quite the same as dealing with an armed crack dealer. Putting myself in a GW's shoes, if I have an identified armed suspect in the old man's situation, I might at least consider following him home and arresting him later when he is sitting on the porch drinking coffee as opposed to a confrontational approach.Might have taken more time and effort and be contrary to how some feel agame violation should be handled. But all I know at this point is that we have a dead man and a GW whose career will be ruined unless his version of the story completely checks out.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:58 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

RIStrutStopper

A Snickers wrapper is tossed into the floorboard, and an open window sucks it out onto the hwy. A State trooper sees it, pulls car over, driver is mad because its unintentional, maybe he's late for something important, maybe the officer is having a bad day, fought with wife night before, maybe a few heated words are exchanged, maybe some of the words aren't right and are misinterpreted, maybe the driver opens the car door when he's told not to, maybe he tells the cop something he shouldn't and the cop returns it, maybe it looks like the driver is reaching for something, maybe the officer doesn't see it right, maybe the driver is, the cop shoots the driver twice in the chest ........... the man has a wife, 3 kids, 6 grandkids, a wedding next weekend, a fishing trip with 2 high school buddies on Fri, the cop is expecting his 1st child, in-laws are visiting on Saturday, they're behind a bit in mortgage payments ........



All over a candy wrapper flying out a window ............ doesn't that seem areally really trivial way for a man to die and another man's life to be forever altered and both the families involved affected too ?






Its my mind that something didn't go right that day. I can't believe the old man was that intent on shooting a warden. Maybe I'm wrong. But I do know the warden was/is suppose to be highly trained in these situations - if you have a license to kill someone legally you frickin better be.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:12 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

I sure am glad Big Brother is paying government agents with taxpayer dollars to lurk around private property in a warrantless searchand confront armed property owners over a pile of corn.

Maybe the guy was breaking the law. Maybe he thought he was far enough from the corn pile. Who knows. It surely doesn't seem to be worth it in hindsight.

Moreover, this is about state revenue and job security. Its a bit like a speed trap. Sure, a citizen might be breaking a regulation, but posting up on an interstatein such a way to cause people to slam on breaks, trying to merge from a deadstop onto an interstate and weave through traffic to go get the guy, forcing them to stop in the emergency lane for 10 minutes while traffic is whizzing by, and then in most states this is a virtual road block because traffic is forced to merge over into the left lane, is it really worth all that danger to give someone a citation for going9 mph over the speed limit? Well, in the eyes of Big Brother it is because it generates A LOT of revenue and it provides them with something to do such that they can say "you can cut Law Enforcement budgets, look at all these duties we perform." If they really cared about making people safer, they'd enforce tailgating, running yellow lights, making turns from improper lanes, and other actions that actually have a high probability of causing an accident. But speeding is very easy to catch and very easy to prove, which means maximized revenue with minimal effort.

Similarly, if Game Wardens wanted to make people safer, they'd be catching people who pouch on private property, people who pouch out of season, or evenpeople who aren't wearing enough orange on public land, etc. Moreover, they wouldn't be CONFISCATING WEAPONS over trivial offenses. Most people have a lot of sentimental value in their guns and would rather pay a fine of twice the value of the gun than lose the gun itself. But it isn't about safety or fairness with the .gov, its about maximum power and maximum profit.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:13 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

If they really cared about making people safer, they'd enforce tailgating, running yellow lights, making turns from improper lanes, and other actions that actually have a high probability of causing an accident.
So speeding doesn't cause accidents? OK

I have to say that if the guy pointed the gun at the GW, then pull the trigger. I'm like many others that are shocked that many are saying it's ok to sit over baited areas!!!!! Stop breaking the law and GW's won't have to do the things they do!!!!! Saying the GW would have a problem on your land if he came on it is retarded!!! Wait for the facts. The guy was wrong, and the problem could have escalated, could it have been solved? Maybe.

How many of you have ever argued with Senior Citizen? They don't usually give in their opinions so if the GW was trying to tell him something there is a good chance the Old man didn't care.

GW are there to help us who follow the laws. I was at Walmart getting shells the other day and the man in front of me was too. The lady at the counter asked to see his FOID card, in IL we have this card to prove we can own guns and buy ammo - it's given by the state police. The man argued that it is too hard to take out of his wallet, valid point, but he didn't have time and was in a rush and he got very loud and ridiculous over her asking to see it. She ended up not making him take it out. Can you say the next terrorist????? I told the lady make sure every person takes out there card and it's legal, I don't care who they are. There's a reason that law is in place. Sure it sucks I have to get it out to buy ammo or a gun, but it makes me safer so I'll do it.

People need to recognize that laws are in place for a reason. The GW was doing his job and if you don't like it, then quit hunting and stop putting the ones who follow the law and enforce the law in danger![:@]

Off soap box now.....
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:39 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

stealthycat-the difference is the GW was looking at a shotgun pointed at him. He didn't suspect he was going for a weapon in your candy wrapper analogy.

lanse couche couche- almost all hunters are armed so instead of writing tickets in the field they should be tailed to the house? I doubt the officer thought this would happen when he confronted the guy. He was doing as he had probably done hundreds of approaching a potential violator and issuing a citation.

stonewall- If this guy was hunting turkeys over bait, he was poaching! Poaching is taking animals outside of the game laws, right? In NC you cannot hunt over, near, or take turkeys with the aid of bait, period! Supposedly the warden was not randomly checking private land, he had been tipped off about bait on this land. In NC he was acting totally within his scope of duties. What is the deal with confiscating weapons? From what I have read there was nothing about confiscating weapons. The hunter/poacher was supposedly in a tree stand and was asked to come down when he started pointing his gun at the warden and telling him to get off his land.


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Old 04-24-2009, 07:41 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

Yep, there are laws that need to be obeyed. BUT, how LEO choose to enforce them can differ. When the hometown troublemaker teen runs a stop light and wont pull over, the local cops have two choices: purseue him until the very end even if it means driving thru town at 100 miles an hour and endangering everyone in the vicinity, or, back off and pick him up the next morning at his parents' house. Like the old saying goes, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.....[:-]

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Old 04-24-2009, 08:42 AM
  #70  
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Default RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden

Ok but the difference here is the violator threatened violent action against the officer. I do not know in what LE situation other than a hostage situation that LEO's walk away from that.
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