How important is shaft straightness for hunting??
02-17-2005, 01:35 PM
#61
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
That was the original question right, How important is shaft straightness for hunting?
02-17-2005, 02:42 PM
#62
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
For what it's worth I just went and checked out a good majority of "high end" arrows ranging in price from $59.99-$231.99 and what I found was that the average for the straightness tolerance for all of these arrows is +-.003" with .001" being the best and .005" being the worst. So, there is definitely more than just straightness that goes into an arrow being higher priced. Being that the other factor is spine consistency I think it would be worthwhile to look beyond the .00x" difference in straightness and be sure to get arrows that will have consistent spine.
02-17-2005, 02:55 PM
#63
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
I'll say this one more time in another way and hope that most understand it. When you buy the ".006" arrows, you're buying a 'specification' which is at the end of the spectrum; and, you're ASSUMING that they're all ".006". NOT!! - based on my professional findings.
This leads to the "yield" factor which I discussed earlier. A few might be .006, and then a few might be .008, and then a few might be .015, etc. Heck, I've even seen a few .004 arrows in a .006 batch. But, they are more random when compared to the usual .001 batch - with exceptions.
Back of the book segment
: The Rep looked at those .001 arrows that I was rejecting the other day and immediately called the factory. He felt that they were misprinted. We both concluded that they were "horrible". They're taking them back without a question.
The bottom line is, what if we hadn't had the incoming QC process in place? How many of these might have gotten to the customer before anyone noticed it?
To summarize, it's just a shame that so many deal with arrows as a 2nd or 3rd level item. It is a very important part of the 'system'.
This leads to the "yield" factor which I discussed earlier. A few might be .006, and then a few might be .008, and then a few might be .015, etc. Heck, I've even seen a few .004 arrows in a .006 batch. But, they are more random when compared to the usual .001 batch - with exceptions.
Back of the book segment
: The Rep looked at those .001 arrows that I was rejecting the other day and immediately called the factory. He felt that they were misprinted. We both concluded that they were "horrible". They're taking them back without a question.The bottom line is, what if we hadn't had the incoming QC process in place? How many of these might have gotten to the customer before anyone noticed it?
To summarize, it's just a shame that so many deal with arrows as a 2nd or 3rd level item. It is a very important part of the 'system'.
02-17-2005, 02:57 PM
#64
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
Straightarrow,
I do not have a problem with you or any others on this board, I am just giving my opinion. The problem is, some of the posts I'm reading it seems like some people are not fully understanding just what my opinion is (that is not directed at you) or are only getting parts of what I'm trying to say.
It is very hard for me to pay more for an arrow that out performs my shooting ability. And what I mean by that is if I put all of my arrows in the bullseye consistantly at any distance from 0-40yds, why would I want to spend more?
Now if we start talking about longer distances and smaller targets then I will be the first to say get the straightest arrows you can afford. But if my .006 arrow is impacting 1/4 +/- inches off of where a .001 arrow would at 40yds and under, why would I spend more money?
You can spend more money and you will get better arrows but do you really NEED it in this situation? my opinion is no. Yes you are entitled to you opinion and I respect that.
John
I do not have a problem with you or any others on this board, I am just giving my opinion. The problem is, some of the posts I'm reading it seems like some people are not fully understanding just what my opinion is (that is not directed at you) or are only getting parts of what I'm trying to say.
It is very hard for me to pay more for an arrow that out performs my shooting ability. And what I mean by that is if I put all of my arrows in the bullseye consistantly at any distance from 0-40yds, why would I want to spend more?
Now if we start talking about longer distances and smaller targets then I will be the first to say get the straightest arrows you can afford. But if my .006 arrow is impacting 1/4 +/- inches off of where a .001 arrow would at 40yds and under, why would I spend more money?
You can spend more money and you will get better arrows but do you really NEED it in this situation? my opinion is no. Yes you are entitled to you opinion and I respect that.
John
02-17-2005, 05:55 PM
#65
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 599
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
I'm new to bowhunting as I just started last year & I also shoot aluminum so maybe I shouldnt say anything. However thats not my style. 
I know beyond a doubt that shooting a straighter arrow with a fixed blade broadhead shrinks my groups alot at 30 yards. I cant shoot groups with good arrows at 30 yards without cutting fletches or nocks but I can with cheap ones. I'm talking Gamegetters as good & fall stalkers as cheap.
Screw on a field point & they both fly exelent & group exellent.
The reason I keep shooting the Alluminums is I can buy the cheapo ones & theyre as straight as most carbons at .005 & when I want to hunt I can use the better ones that are straighter than most carbons & still way cheaper.
Its my opinion that the reason alot of guys need to shoot mechanicals is because they insist on shooting carbons but wont or cant spend 80 to 100 bucks for a dozen arrows.
I oughtta add that even the stalkers group good enuff for hunting out to 30 (furthest I can shoot in my yard) I can keep them in 4" at that distance so I guess that .005 carbons should suffice as well. Not as good as .001 tho.
I know beyond a doubt that shooting a straighter arrow with a fixed blade broadhead shrinks my groups alot at 30 yards. I cant shoot groups with good arrows at 30 yards without cutting fletches or nocks but I can with cheap ones. I'm talking Gamegetters as good & fall stalkers as cheap.Screw on a field point & they both fly exelent & group exellent.
The reason I keep shooting the Alluminums is I can buy the cheapo ones & theyre as straight as most carbons at .005 & when I want to hunt I can use the better ones that are straighter than most carbons & still way cheaper.
Its my opinion that the reason alot of guys need to shoot mechanicals is because they insist on shooting carbons but wont or cant spend 80 to 100 bucks for a dozen arrows.
I oughtta add that even the stalkers group good enuff for hunting out to 30 (furthest I can shoot in my yard) I can keep them in 4" at that distance so I guess that .005 carbons should suffice as well. Not as good as .001 tho.
02-17-2005, 07:45 PM
#66
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 201
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
I think that if you can consistently hit your target at hunting distances with the arrow of your choice then that is good enough. I have worked in tool shops for 20+ years. Most of that time building plastic injection molds. So I know what a tolerance is. And I know that a lot of the time tolerances are not met. We are talking arrows here, even the most expensive arrow money could buy is still a very low cost item in the manufacturing world. You can bet your a$$ that out of 100 arrows made, probably less than 5 would ever get checked. That's not what a salesman would tell you, but thats what would happen. They are too busy boxing up truckloads to sell to everybody that buys into their BS that they can make something within .001 that is 30 inches long. They know most people don't have the equipment or the knowhow to check them. Next time I buy arrows I will accurately check them at work at post the true specs here.
02-17-2005, 08:06 PM
#67
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Middletown PA United States
Posts: 3,625
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
[quote]ORIGINAL: dws
I think that if you can consistently hit your target at hunting distances with the arrow of your choice then that is good enough.
dws, although I agree with most of what you posted above I do have to rebutt this part. One of the biggest differences between average and better to top-notch shooters is that "nothing is ever good enough". There is always the quest for perfection, or at least to exceed past performance. It's not always about equipment either, but attitude, too. And then there are really people that honestly don't know where the differences lie so need educated. That's where these discussions come in handy.
But to be honest about it, I have never cared for statements that mean "close enough for hunting". To me it shows a lack of respect for critters. This is blood and guts and the animals deserve our respect and the best we can give them.
I think that if you can consistently hit your target at hunting distances with the arrow of your choice then that is good enough.
dws, although I agree with most of what you posted above I do have to rebutt this part. One of the biggest differences between average and better to top-notch shooters is that "nothing is ever good enough". There is always the quest for perfection, or at least to exceed past performance. It's not always about equipment either, but attitude, too. And then there are really people that honestly don't know where the differences lie so need educated. That's where these discussions come in handy.
But to be honest about it, I have never cared for statements that mean "close enough for hunting". To me it shows a lack of respect for critters. This is blood and guts and the animals deserve our respect and the best we can give them.
02-17-2005, 09:44 PM
#68
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
BGfisher,
I agree with everything you just said but I just have to ask you this. If I can put my .001 arrow through the heart of a whitetail say at 35yds and I can also put my .006 arrow through the same heart at the same distance. How am I doing that critter disjustice?
That is a perfect example of that arrow being "close enough for hunting"
It's the same reason why I use off the shelf winchester failsafes instead of "match grade" rounds in my rifle. Are the match grade rounds better than the off the shelf rounds with better tolerances? yep....do I need to spend the extra money if those off the shelf winchesters are going exactly where I want them to? nope. Am I doing the animal I'm hunting a disservice by not using the more expensive and better rounds...certainley not.
But to be honest about it, I have never cared for statements that mean "close enough for hunting". To me it shows a lack of respect for critters. This is blood and guts and the animals deserve our respect and the best we can give them.
That is a perfect example of that arrow being "close enough for hunting"
It's the same reason why I use off the shelf winchester failsafes instead of "match grade" rounds in my rifle. Are the match grade rounds better than the off the shelf rounds with better tolerances? yep....do I need to spend the extra money if those off the shelf winchesters are going exactly where I want them to? nope. Am I doing the animal I'm hunting a disservice by not using the more expensive and better rounds...certainley not.
02-17-2005, 09:46 PM
#69
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
So what I'm gathering is this: buy the .001's and the .006's at least once in your life to see if there is any difference. if one can honestly shoot the .001's better and notice a difference in their accuracy than go with the .001's. if a person can't tell a bit of difference, cheaper is better.
Same with the Beman ICS hunters , I've had no troubles with the 340's , but if I went by the charts (which I did to begin with) they tell me to use the 400's.
Just something to keep in mind.
Just wanted to add that I also cut my arrows from both ends and I make sure both ends are perfectly smooth and level , which I consider probably the most important steps in building an arrow.
02-18-2005, 04:45 AM
#70
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,981
RE: How important is shaft straighness for hunting??
bowfanatic, i agree completely about spine. it has been more important in my tuning experience than the difference between .003 and .006. i used to shoot gt 55/75's and could never get tuned out of my 70 lb patriot, never. all a certain shop owner here sells to all his shooters is 55/75's. i ordered some 75/95's and my tuning issues disappeared.
blodg, i have never owned any acc's. i'm a loyal gt shooter. i have read and been very interested by much of your technical info, and i will take you up on your advice to try them out. couple ?'s, if they have carbon and aluminum, which blade do you cut them with? and i shoot a 70 lb 29" draw patriot sc with 452x strings and cables, i know nothing about ordering the correct ones, which one do you reccomend for proper spine for my setup? i'd rather be a little stiff on spine than just at the edge of what an arrow is listed for a particular setup, at least that's what i've learned from shooting gold tips. any help in letting me know which acc's would be proper for me would be greatly appreciated.
blodg, i have never owned any acc's. i'm a loyal gt shooter. i have read and been very interested by much of your technical info, and i will take you up on your advice to try them out. couple ?'s, if they have carbon and aluminum, which blade do you cut them with? and i shoot a 70 lb 29" draw patriot sc with 452x strings and cables, i know nothing about ordering the correct ones, which one do you reccomend for proper spine for my setup? i'd rather be a little stiff on spine than just at the edge of what an arrow is listed for a particular setup, at least that's what i've learned from shooting gold tips. any help in letting me know which acc's would be proper for me would be greatly appreciated.